I am quoting torque at the wheels when speaking about these figures (with the exception of the gearbox power quoted above) where as you would be referring to torque at the engine, over here we often go by these measurements as standard vs at the engine.

OK thanks for clarifying, hence why I said above

Also to be aware of - ‘550Nm’ - WHP or calculated - be sure to compare apples with apples.

As UK/EU tuners tend to quote calculated engine hp rather than WHP.

(And yes, calculated figures have to incorporate some guesswork/estimate in drivetrain losses!)

 

OK thanks for clarifying, hence why I said above




As UK/EU tuners tend to quote calculated engine hp rather than WHP.

(And yes, calculated figures have to incorporate some guesswork/estimate in drivetrain losses!)

Because we are so spread out all over the place it can be hard when it comes to stuff like this, the question still stands, at this power level how much is a CPC needed rather than it is just thrown at it with the theory it is needed these days, are tuners good enough to get around it or is it a must for most ''stage 2'' tunes, it seems the TCU tune is a must if making enough torque.

Again this is why I raised the question, lots of speculation but not a lot of evidence to back it up.

 

I think the answer is, it depends, on the car itself (variability of build, gearbox etc), how much clamping pressure each tuner applies to the clutches, what torque limiting curve they apply to the map etc.

I don’t think there is a single “above x Nm, you need a new CPC” answer - hence why I detest forum posts that spout such figures.

Personally, I don’t think that the car is receptive to anything beyond a Stage 1+ tune, without spending £££. If you’re seeking more power, there are better platforms to start out with. But that’s just me, with my criteria of durability etc. There are also other negatives that would irritate me (eg drivability, gearbox shift quality etc) as the tune and performance increased. No such thing as a free lunch.

Howver, gut feel, and reading around other tuning forums, would suggest that if you’re seeking above 600/620 Nm ish (calculated) then a CPC would be the best route. But this is a guesstimate based on other forums, and if you’re seeking more, and have a large wallet, why not

For me, the large advantage a new CPC would bring is repeatability of the max numbers of the tune, under wider operating conditions. ie: the car wouldn’t be a one run wonder.

 

I think the answer is, it depends, on the car itself (variability of build, gearbox etc), how much clamping pressure each tuner applies to the clutches, what torque limiting curve they apply to the map etc.

I don’t think there is a single “above x Nm, you need a new CPC” answer - hence why I detest forum posts that spout such figures.

Personally, I don’t think that the car is receptive to anything beyond a Stage 1 tune, if you’re seeking more power, there are better platforms to start out with. But that’s just me, with my criteria of durability etc. There are also other negatives that would irritate me (eg drivability, gearbox shift quality etc) as the tune and performance increased. No such thing as a free lunch.

Howver, gut feel, and reading around other tuning forums, would suggest that if you’re seeking above 600/620 Nm ish (calculated) then a CPC would be the best route. But this is a guesstimate based on other forums, and if you’re seeking more, and have a large wallet, why not

The large advantage a new CPC would bring is repeatability of the max numbers of the tune, under wider operating conditions. ie: the car wouldn’t be a one run wonder.

Totally understand that and there is always a lot of variables in this stuff, I for one am all for doing the necessary things required for upgrades as cheaping out only ever ends badly.. this was simply a question I had for anyone with experience in this exact scenario as I feel like it is a valid question for the current situation with these cars.

I agree there is no magic number that they need to be done at however I do feel the standard clutches are likely to be a weak point once you start to make some bigger torque, I for one do not wish to do that but rather have a somewhat refined drive that performs as well as it can for what it is.

 

@fatty45 is your go to guy on this. While his car is the CLA45 no s.

 

Hey, sorry to hijack this thread however I do think I’m sharing some interesting information and potentially even more interesting results.

I bought my A45S in July with 18k on the clock. FSH. Late on in the sale I was informed it was decatted (and potentially tuned) - I couldn’t get any further details.

The car has been great since I bought it although I certainly do suspect that it’s running more power however I don’t have a reference - done some 30-70 mph using track pace and getting 3.05s consistently. Certainly under 3.5s 100% of the time.

The car does seem luggy at low speed at times and I’m now suspecting it’s a fuelling issue. Perhaps a bad tune?

Fortunately we have EcoTune up here in Scotland I’m booked in Wednesday 20th for the following -

I’m suspecting the car is tuned in some way. I’m no car mechanic however it’s either decatted or a sports cat- so it must have been tuned I’d imagine as I don’t have any EML/codes.

So if it’s tuned then EcoTune will confirm if it’s safe and a good tune. If so, then all fine. I’ll pay them Labour and be on my way. I’ll always be able to see what/how the car is running on their dyno.

If it’s not been tuned or if Ecotune feel it’s not a particularly good or safe tune then they will load their Stage 1 tune. This is fairly modest gains tbh however I want a safe car, running well rather than a car that is on its limit all the time. Boo, hiss!!

I will certainly keep you updated.

 

Hi there. I dunno if your car is tuned you would need to do a run stock and then tuned so that these numbers mean anything, but what I can tell you based on my times is that a 3.05 30-70 mph looks pretty stock to me. The A45s will do the 0-62 in a consistent 3.9 or a little lower and then takes another half a second to do 70, so we're looking at roughly 4.5 for the 0-70. 0-30 takes more or less 1.65 so that would be 2.85 for the 30-70, give or take 0.3 to account for different tires, tire temperature, pavement, ambient temperature you know all that stuff, and you're left with roughly 3s. Perfectly stock, looking at these numbers alone.

However you could still be tuned and just need to go faster or need a longer run. 100-200 kph or 60-130 mph is what really tells you how strong you are, or see what you trap in a 1/4 mile drag, which in fact can give you a fairly accurate reading of your whp if you know exactly what you weigh (need to actually weigh your car).

Here's my best run and I'm stock (slightly downhill):

Another run (slightly downhill but with a passenger):

 

Personally I would buy a tuned A45s by Brabus only. My reasons have been posted elsewhere in the thread. If you are buying it I would check the cost to insure it first.

 

I completely appreciate that. Perhaps it’s Brabus that’s tuned my car / I’m just not sure. I’m keen to see what Ecotune say next week.

 

Thought you guys might be interested in this from Dodson. I had heard that they had looked at the A45 clutch a while back and may have manufactured a one off for someone but seems they never got that far. I wasn’t asking about the A45S but received the info about the hurdles involved anyway.

Thought I’d pass it on as it might be of some use or interest to some of the guys in this thread 👌🏼

 

These guys are from your region?

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Luke’s back

 

Water/meth is a nice solution, particularly in hot climates with easy heat soak. I get non-flammable 49% meth bottles delivered.
Makes more sense for a daily street car than Ed's expensive interchiller which also seems a pain to integrate.

I wonder if Like/EST will mod the head and exhaust manifold? The other big restriction

 

It’d be good to see the car driven. Trailer there and then trailer home.

Around 14.30. Entirely agree about his derision of middle lane hoggers. Even worse on the four lane M25, 3rd lane hoggers. And dual carriageways outside lane hoggers 🤷‍♂️

 

I wanted to update you all on my car. So I got it tuned by Ecotune - they advised me that the car already had a tune on it and it looked fine, however went ahead and trusted their expertise. So they had the car for a day and we ended up with good headline figures. I’ll post the graph.

I had be swithering with the £2000 EST package which incorporates their tune, plus the TCU tune. And replacement CPC module.

However Ecotune now say they can offer a TCU tune, ‘as long as it's possible to read and write the box's software area he can develop a tune for it’.

I love the guys at Ecotune and they do have a fantastic reputation however I’m now a little confused as I thought the CPC needed replaced for the TCU tune?

I’m still swithering on just biting the bullet and starting again with EST however they are at the other end of the country, I’m up here in Scotland - lovely ambient temperatures btw

Any thoughts? I do trust Ecotune so I’m not sure what I’m worried about, but it’s difficult to pick through all the technical info on this thread. I’m not interested in any more power, just looking for that sharper, snappier gear shifts now. This CPC ‘requirement’ has thrown me!

Just wanted to add, having not owned the car from new - I wanted peace of mind so the rear differential has been serviced just there at 22500 miles (very slight weeping from one of the driveshaft seals - so that was replaced) and the DCT gearbox is being serviced this week by Mackie Transmissions in Glasgow, who have an excellent reputation. Better to be safe than sorry (he says on a tuning thread!)

many thanks

 

I had be swithering with the £2000 EST package which incorporates their tune, plus the TCU tune. And replacement CPC module.

If they said the car already had a tune could they not just do the TCU tune only, which was all you wanted?

I am surprised to hear that there was any sort of drive shaft weeping at 22,500 miles. Not that I have checked mine at 30,000 miles, but do rely on MB to do that. Whoever had the car before must have launched it a few times since they had it tuned. But I think you have done the right things in the pre-emptive servicing you have had done.

 

 

They won’t do a TCU only upgrade without starting from scratch and putting their own ECU tune on the car first. To be fair, their reasoning was around any future issues the car may have in terms of who to then speak to (i.e Would it be the company that remapped the ECU or the company that remapped the TCU - I take their point.

Re: Driveshaft weeping - it was only slight however that’s the risk isn’t it, with buying used. FWIW, I’ve launched the car once in 5000 miles, and not since I had the car in at Ecotune in November. It’s not something that I feel overly comfortable doing, and it is absolutely brutal, so I’m not keen on adding excessive wear in that regard.

I think I’ll just trust Ecotune with what they say they can offer. Ultimately, if it transpires they can’t remap the gearbox, then it’s local and I’ve not wasted a whole lot of time and miles, or money. Booked in for 24th.

 

I’ve launched the car once in 5000 miles, and not since I had the car in at Ecotune in November. It’s not something that I feel overly comfortable doing, and it is absolutely brutal

Yes it is and with a tune I would just use S and that's pretty fast. I've only ever launched an MB car on their track experience for A45s owners. The driver who took me out played it up as being really brutal and he'd need to hang onto something. Which made each launch a slight anti-climax as with the two of us in the car the acceleration didn't seem hugely that much quicker than when I just put my foot down in my own A45s.

 

530bhp and 650Nm!

 

And the dyno make/model where we measured it is...

Spoiler

insignificant.

 

Hybrid Turbo, but without supporting hardware
540bhp, 640Nm

 

It'd be good to get @TurboEds take on this. Especially around the wastegate hyperventilating.

 

 

 

I wonder how much all this work would have cost if had to pay for it and which insurance company covers it. Yet after all this the car is still slower than an E63s.

 

 

This car is not meant to be launched but I did and my clutch went out

 

this car was meant to be a roll race car, but now I bought an M240xi

 

 

 

Dyno is only useful to show what difference your mods are making.

Use different dynos for before and after, your basically wasting your time. The quarter mile results show this

 

Yep agreed.

Use as a “relative” measure, before and after mods, try to keep the same environmental conditions.

It’s a lottery if you try to get an “absolute” number out of them.

 

 

I don't know if it's just me but I get the impression he's a little slow for a +100hp gain. If that's what you get out of a FBO upgrade that's going to set you back 7 grand, can't think of a bigger waste of money. Honestly this looks more like a mild tune, I've been struggling to notice the difference. Perhaps a little more punchy up top, but that's it. And I'm not hating, I would've loved to watch an A45s that blew my mind, perhaps might even motivate me to go down the same path (I probably wouldn't, for the reasons we've already discussed, but never say never).

 

He seemed to be suffering from not having upgraded brakes. Plus he seemed to have gone to the the track with pads which were not in good shape.

I would be interested to know how he funds himself. His friends cars seemed out of place next to his two cars.