[veeeight]

And the Fiesta ST2 is best all rounder.

Talking of which this is Groundhog Day as this has been discussed before on here.

Yes, but you chose to re-Groundhog day the awards in post #336 and #341!, even though the A45s came 3rd in the WhatCar tests!

And there’s a good reason why the Fiesta ST and GR Yaris are consistent winners, they are both B-road weapons that reward superbly!

 

[Forrester]

Yes, but you chose to re-Groundhog day the awards in post #336 and #341!, even though the A45s came 3rd in the WhatCar tests!

And there’s a good reason why the Fiesta ST and GR Yaris are consistent winners, they are both B-road weapons that reward superbly!

Which WhatCar test. In the awards the A45s is first.

I have little doubt about the GR for its price but it is lacking in too many things I need/want from a super hatch.

 

[veeeight]

I have little doubt about the GR for its price but it is lacking in too many things I need/want from a super hatch.

This is it exactly though, isn’t it! There is no such thing as the one perfect car for all, it very much depends on your individual priorities as to which attribute in a car is most important to you!

Car, Pistonheads, Top Gear, Prosser etc all prefer the perceived roundness of the RS3, which isn’t really a crime (although going by indignation, it very much is!), and even the much vaunted WhatCar gives the 2022 Best Daily Hot Hatch to the RS3! That’s not to say that the RS3 shines in every area, or that the A45s shines in every area.

Pick the attributes that are most important to you in a car, it really is very good to have such a choice, and I’m very much looking forward to the addition of the M240i/M2 into this mix!

(Me personally - on a B-Road blast, purely on the driving experience, ride, handling, agility and nimbleness of a GR Yaris outperforms both the RS3 and A45s!)

 

[Forrester]

(Me personally - on a B-Road blast, purely on the driving experience, ride, handling, agility and nimbleness of a GR Yaris outperforms both the RS3 and A45s!)

Yes but you can't then change out of the GR once off the B-Road. Hence the A45s is the best option for me at present. But if I wanted to change my car in future and couldn't stretch to an A45s again I might consider the A35 or Golf R rather than the GR as an all rounder.

 

[veeeight]

Yes but you can't then change out of the GR once off the B-Road.

Plenty of people use the GR as a daily! Harry Metcalfe and son fight over it regularly!

The GRY is no worse than an A45 or A35 on the motorway in terms of road noise, in some cases, better!

Like you say - it all depends what people want out of a car, as to which attributes they place the highest. Hence why, it is felt by many, that the RS3 is more suited to being the best “all-rounder”.

That and the 5-cyl engine, plus it’s potential for tune-ability (he says, dragging the topic back on track).

 

[Forrester]

That and the 5-cyl engine, plus it’s potential for tune-ability (he says, dragging the topic back on track).

I'll let @Turbo Ed respond to on that.

 

[Theo]

Boggles my mind that there actually are people that can't daily the A45s. In comfort, car is smooth and comfortable as a sled sliding down a slope layered with Angora silk and sprinkled with the finest Egyptian cotton. I mean really, how soft can you be ffs? 😂

And let me repeat, in a hyper hatch, you just can't prioritize comfort! It's not a d4mn saloon, it's a performance oriented vehicle it just happens to have 4 doors, a decent size hatch trunk and can fit 5 adults. And for that, it really is as comfortable as it can be, period!

 

[Forrester]

Boggles my mind that there actually are people that can't daily the A45s. In comfort, car is smooth and comfortable as a sled sliding down a slope layered with Angora silk and sprinkled with the finest Egyptian cotton. I mean really, how soft can you be ffs? 😂

And let me repeat, in a hyper hatch, you just can't prioritize comfort! It's not a d4mn saloon, it's a performance oriented vehicle it just happens to have 4 doors, a decent size hatch trunk and can fit 5 adults. And for that, it really is as comfortable as it can be, period!

Entirely agree. The A45s is a lot better, other than fuel economy, as a daily compared to my wife's A3 and other cars I've had or driven.

 

[veeeight]

I'll let @Turbo Ed respond to on that.

Shaun has already found that to be the case

 

[Sixman]

As a drivers car i would also pick the GRY. As an everyday car will stick with the A45S. As a modder the GRY (several locals running 10's now and proving reliable for track work) or RS3 make way more sense. I wonder what the tuning scene will get out of the m240i?

Performance wise it seems clear from all the tests the RS3 is marginally quicker. Realistically not noticeable but enough to be the new King. That it's more comfortable makes sense in many ways as neither is a track car.

Which brings up the question which is quicker on a tecnical type track? Does the edginess, harder ride of the A45s translate to a quicker time or is it all fake like the exhaust noise inside? I took my A45s to a local hill climb event, after that had no real desire to take it to our local track, only 30 mins away. As a daily I have no issue with ride quality, and the AMG seats / interior always feels like a special place to be.

Much more choice than 2 yrs ago!

 

[Turbo Ed]

As @veeeight says, Shaun has already been down the mod'd A45 path, albeit with the W176 A45, which is so different in the drivetrain to our W177 cars as to make @veeeight 's observation meaningless.
However, I guess more or less by accident., @veeeight is still correct.
The degree to which AMG has gone to prevent our cars, "practically", (by which I mean. cost effectively) modifiable, is actually quite amazing.
I am close to providing an update on my vehicle over on the Tuning thread.in the next couple of weeks.
In fifty years in the industry, I don't think I have ever seen anything like it.

So, as @veeeight says, one of the HUGE benefits of the RS3 is it's turnability.
Along with it's 5 cylinders, which are of far greater technical benefit than simply the engine "note".
I am expecting the same to be true of the M2 Xdrive; however, I still maintain talking about them in the same context as as four door/four seaters is essentially pointless.

For the balance of the discussion between my last post and this one, Guys, you are just buying into the Journalistic "BS".
Someone like George Kacher is far and away the exception to the rule (also around my age, i.e. a dying breed!!) and the vast majority of the content should most definitely be looked at, as @veeeight quite rightly says, as entertainment.
Please don't take it so seriously.
Goggle Box for cars!!

 

[Theo]

Only difference is in the launch where the RS3 shines with its fat torque curve that comes 3k rpm earlier, just like we've already established. However same 100-200 kph, and better top end for the A45s as shown here. Which reminds me how the A45s was reeling in the RS3 toward the end of the run, in one of carwow videos. This video here says it all.

Here's another interesting video. Same thing, RS3 launches better and the A45s just slightly creeping up toward the end. Watch the second run though, which clearly demonstrates the A45s's better top end. See the torque graph at 5:57. That's why the RS3 launches better, but after 5k the tables are turned in favor of the A45s, as it's able to sustain higher torque for a good 800 rpm toward redline.

 

[AM GEE]

I’ve noticed that most of these YouTube reviewers don’t mention the Audi’s low down lag. I would think that as a daily, this could be a smidge annoying for me as I’m not driving high speeds to work, and I’m in traffic. For anyone who’s driven the 8Y, did you find the lag noticeable?

 

[Forrester]

Only difference is in the launch where the RS3 shines with its fat torque curve that comes 3k rpm earlier, just like we've already established. However same 100-200 kph, and better top end for the A45s as shown here. Which reminds me how the A45s was reeling in the RS3 toward the end of the run, in one of carwow videos. This video here says it all.

Here's another interesting video. Same thing, RS3 launches better and the A45s just slightly creeping up toward the end. Watch the second run though, which clearly demonstrates the A45s's better top end. See the torque graph at 5:57. That's why the RS3 launches better, but after 5k the tables are turned in favor of the A45s, as it's able to sustain higher torque for a good 800 rpm toward redline.

In the second video, they're entirely right, as I keep flagging up as well about the torque curve of the RS3 being like table mountain compared to the A45s. It's a big handicap for the A45s.

 

[Theo]

In the second video, they're entirely right, as I keep flagging up as well about the torque curve of the RS3 being like table mountain compared to the A45s. It's a big handicap for the A45s.

It is, but the fact that our 2 liter engine and smaller turbo according to @Turbo Ed appears to have better top end, is something I find extremely impressive. Which makes me wonder what kind of bottleneck is in the RS3, one that we obviously don't have. Is it just the way it's tuned by Audi, to make less torque between 6.2 and 7k?

 

[Turbo Ed]

It is, but the fact that our 2 liter engine and smaller turbo according to @Turbo Ed appears to have better top end, is something I find extremely impressive. Which makes me wonder what kind of bottleneck is in the RS3, one that we obviously don't have. Is it just the way it's tuned by Audi, to make less torque between 6.2 and 7k?

It actually isn't that complex.
In broad terms, our cars have a 500 MAX HP Turbo, the Audis a 600 MAX HP Turbo.
Please note, these are MAX figures, not efficient ones.
There IS a difference.
However, the Audis have 25% more displacement which equates to better bottom end torque, before you start adding boost.
Also the Audis are tuned more like the W176 A45 with the extended flat toque curve.
As we are all aware, for some reason AMG thought it would be "cool" to provide a " NA" torque curve from the W177 A45S turbo engine.
Who knows why?
One of the interesting questions is why Audi did not simply tune their engine in the new car to somewhere closer to 450 HP which would have really been simple.
It would have required a new intercooler and some cooling revisions; however nothing major.
There are a couple of possible reasons which I can think of , off the top of my head, and probably at least a couple more which don't immediately occur to me.
Firstly, performance becoming too close to more expensive, higher spec RS models.
Second and the most likely in my opinion, emissions compliance development and consequent costs for very limited production volume model.
I think we are all agreed this is likely to be the last ICE RS3, so why allocate a lot of Engineering time and incur significant Costs on an engine at the end of its life?

 

[Turbo Ed]

Update on RS3 availability in Australia.
First batch due into country late July, for August 2022 delivery.
If I ordered one then, after subjecting the interior to a @veeeight "lite" inspection, (they might object to interior panel removal ), earliest delivery date February 2024.
$10K AUD (Approx. 5K Pds) Deposit, only refundable if they don't actually achieve the promised delivery at time of actually placing the order/ deposit.
No point in discussing price, as it is non negotiable.
Equipped identically to an Australian delivery spec A45S, (which they aren't, as basically offered), approx10% more expensive,

 

[Forrester]

Also the Audis are tuned more like the W176 A45 with the extended flat toque curve.
As we are all aware, for some reason AMG thought it would be "cool" to provide a " NA" torque curve from the W177 A45S turbo engine.

Entirely correct. In fact MB are having to restrict the early torque of the A45s engine to get the peaky outcome they are. So to compete better against the RS3 engine they just need to stop the inhibitors and plateau the torque much earlier.

 

[Theo]

Update on RS3 availability in Australia.
First batch due into country late July, for August 2022 delivery.
If I ordered one then, after subjecting the interior to a @veeeight "lite" inspection, (they might object to interior panel removal ), earliest delivery date February 2024.
$10K AUD (Approx. 5K Pds) Deposit, only refundable if they don't actually achieve the promised delivery at time of actually placing the order/ deposit.
No point in discussing price, as it is non negotiable.
Equipped identically to an Australian delivery spec A45S, (which they aren't, as basically offered), approx10% more expensive,

Perfect, you'll end up purchasing a car that will be two years old, probably few months before the A45s FL comes out. Don't forget to opt for soft trim on the B pillar, if there is one, so it won't hurt much when you beat your head against it.

Also, the fact that they require a 10 grand deposit and telling you that after one year and a half waiting, you might never actually get your car, but they'll refund you so no harm no foul, is utterly ridiculous. But at least feel happy about helping their business cope with running costs, while for the next 18 months you have no access to that money anymore.

 

[Turbo Ed]

Perfect, you'll end up purchasing a car that will be two years old, probably few months before the A45s FL comes out. Don't forget to opt for soft trim on the B pillar, if there is one, so it won't hurt much when you beat your head against it.

Also, the fact that they require a 10 grand deposit and telling you that after one year and a half waiting, you might never actually get your car, but they'll refund you so no harm no foul, is utterly ridiculous. But at least feel happy about helping their business cope with running costs, while for the next 18 months you have no access to that money anymore.

LOL!!
You are telling ME? !!
It is definitely a new vehicle seller's market out here at the moment.