[Macgd016]

@CREED had his car screen bricked when an MBUX update applied by the dealer failed.
Car had to be recovered back to the dealer for new hardware.

This does happen in real life, with any electronics and IT hardware and software devices, in any industry.

Always a risk.

True, as with any computer system you have the choice whether to stick with the original software or update and take advantage of the upgrades and many people are still running XP, but most keep their systems updated

 

[veeeight]

True, as with any computer system you have the choice whether to stick with the original software or update and take advantage of the upgrades and many people are still running XP, but most keep their systems updated

Windows XP stopped being supported in 2014, so anyone running Windows XP in 2021 will not have had any updates since 2014.

In a similar fashion, there are still cars around from the 2000’s running fine without any updates being done on any of the modules (eg ABS, Engine ECU, Body Controller). All working well.

Automotive engineering wisdom states that unless you have a problem with a module, don’t go looking for one by way of an update. It’s a car, not a piece of consumer electronics, where the software update philosophy is completely different.

 

[steve_3939]

Had my first service yesterday for the A45s and as a part of it i asked for all software updates. I had a call back from the dealership asking why did I want all software updates as it could cause the car to go wrong. I would have thought having updates would be like updating my computer or phone and a necessary part of keeping the car running in it's best condition.

Has anyone else had that from their dealer or know if the dealer is right to advise against updates. I had the updates done anyway but have no clue what they were as there is no feedback.

had my first service on 5th March. Asked for any updates to be checked and was assured they were all upto date. Just have to take their word for it they checked 😳

 

[Forrester]

had my first service on 5th March. Asked for any updates to be checked and was assured they were all upto date. Just have to take their word for it they checked 😳

Yes agreed. But I remember we both had our cars in for software updates before and no one said then that our cars could die in the process.

 

[Macgd016]

Automotive engineering wisdom states that unless you have a problem with a module, don’t go looking for one by way of an update. It’s a car, not a piece of consumer electronics, where the software update philosophy is completely different.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as Automotive engineering wisdom, if there is there is very little sign of it 😂

As for the rest of what you say I quite agree, if you don't update your software it will eventually become unsupported and at best it will only ever do what it did the day it left the factory. This was probably fine even 10 years ago but today cars have just become so reliant on computers that updates have become inevitable for manufactures although I'm sure they wish they weren't.

At the end of the day though manufactures will do no more than they have to whilst creating the illusion that they are keeping your car fully updated 🙄

 

[Macgd016]

Yes agreed. But I remember we both had our cars in for software updates before and no one said then that our cars could die in the process.

Oh I shouldn't worry I'm sure they get it right 'most' of the time 😭🤭

 

[veeeight]

This was probably fine even 10 years ago but today cars have just become so reliant on computers that updates have become inevitable for manufactures although I'm sure they wish they weren't.

Well, actually, ABS modules, body controllers, Engine ECU's etc. have all been reliant on electronics and microprocessors for over 40 years (Bosch Motronic fuel injection in 1979, Bosch Electro/Hydraulic ABS in 1978), so we've had cars reliant on electronics and 'computers' for way longer than 10 years. But even on todays cars nobody really goes around demanding updates to the numerous out of sight extremely complex 'computers' such as ABS, SRS, Body Controllers, Antenna modules and many more that exist in todays cars.

It's just the visible parts of the car electronics (ie: Infotainment) that people tend to see, and equate to consumer electronics, and have got in the mindset that these "Must be Updated Regularly" (often for no benefit to them).

and at best it will only ever do what it did the day it left the factory

Hmmm. You don't actually think that an update will give you more features for free, do you?!
What are you going to do after the 3 year warranty period is up? Do you think a dealer is going to willingly update your car for more features for free? 😂😂

This is where the beauty of OTA come in. They will offer you more features, if your purchase them from the Store. There's your "update" done if you want the car to do more than what it did when it left the factory! All for a small charge Sir/Madam. 😂😂

Even Tesla are using OTA to turn chargeable features on and off, more than they are providing software update fixes!

 

[CREED]

You are quite right updates should be applied as a matter of course.

As for them suggesting updates might damage your car 🙄 they would be pretty negligent if they applied anything that did, they are the experts after all or you hope they are 😂

Software updates should be included as part of a dealership service. However, it is common policy for them not to be for two main reasons:

1. The time involved. Updating each module can take a lot of time and cannot be interrupted once started. When you consider that my vehicle has 40+ modules onboard, a full update could take multiple days.

2. Major updates carry a risk of hardware failure. In my case, updating MBUX bricked a module worth £2500. The dealership said this was the 3rd time they had seen an MBUX update cause this.

Until car makers can resolve both of these issues I can't see updates being included any time soon.

it clearly states in the handbook, unless completed by Mercedes, all warranty is void and it will effect car resale value.

That isn't true, manufacturers aren't allowed to include restrictions like that anymore by law. Mercedes have an "Official Workshop Network" which includes independent garages. Provided that your car is serviced by someone on that list then your warranty remains intact.

 

[Macgd016]

Software updates should be included as part of a dealership service. However, it is common policy for them not to be for two main reasons:

1. The time involved. Updating each module can take a lot of time and cannot be interrupted once started. When you consider that my vehicle has 40+ modules onboard, a full update could take multiple days.

2. Major updates carry a risk of hardware failure. In my case, updating MBUX bricked a module worth £2500. The dealership said this was the 3rd time they had seen an MBUX update cause this.

Until car makers can resolve both of these issues I can't see updates being included any time soon.



That isn't true, manufacturers aren't allowed to include restrictions like that anymore by law. Mercedes have an "Official Workshop Network" which includes independent garages. Provided that your car is serviced by someone on that list then your warranty remains intact.

I couldn't agree more, there is a huge gulf between what they should do and what they will do.

 

[veeeight]

Sorry chaps, it has never been the policy of motor manufacturers to apply software updates to modules as routine. For all the reasons outlined in post #134.

Scans for stored and current faults, yes. Applying software updates routinely - never been the case. Ever.

This is a consumer electronics trait/habit, where the user is encouraged to apply the updates made available.

There are far more regulatory and homologation issues surrounding updating a car’s systems, compared with a phone or tablet. A car is not a piece of consumer electronics.

 

[Macgd016]

I would have said it is common place for motor manufactures to apply software updates, I've certainly had them in the past but I suspect they only apply those that they want or are forced to apply rather than routinely updating all cars to the latest release.

It's also worth remembering that it is not owners who have pushed for system updates, I imagine many like myself were perfectly happy just to drive the car we bought provided any safety updates were applied. But the manufactures are selling the advantages and importance of keeping our cars software systems up to date so it is they that have created the expectation the software will be kept up to date.

Some advertise that this is done as part of the service schedule, others sell the importance and convenience of OTA updates and I've even seem one MB dealer offering software updates as part of their service plan.

 

[veeeight]

Software module updates are only applied at a service if:

1. There’s a TIPS/TPI/Service Bulletin requiring the dealer to apply them on specific modules.

2. Part of a Recall

3. In the case of a complaint or fault on that specific module.

I’d be interested to see exactly the nature of what was offered or promised by way of “offering to keep the car updated”.

It could well just amount to free map updates for the first 3 years, I can’t recall any other offering. But let’s see if there’s anything else promised.

I can only recall 2 OTA updates that weren’t part of map updates, 1 this year for the eCall software, and the other was last year but I can’t even remember what it was for, so the OTA update does work when it’s needed.

Amazon Music has appeared on MBUX as a new feature in the last 12 months, so there’s your OTA software feature upgrade delivered right there.

The “created expectation” may well be the OTA offering, but somehow this has been translated into “the dealer workshop will update all your modules as part of a regular service”. I personally never seen that advertised. It’s not on the Service A or Service B schedule.

As we’ve already established that you can get your car serviced outside the M-B network without losing warranty, Indy’s that don’t have access to M-B updates, ain’t going to update your modules while changing your oil and filter.

 

[Forrester]

As a part of the service I asked for the start/stop to be looked at as it is very slow. And much slower than my previous A45 and any other car I drive.

The dealer told me yesterday, as I was following up if they had done anything, they had updated the software for it but that the start/stop restart can vary depending upon driving conditions. This was a new one for me. Does anyone know if it is true or should I just try another dealer

 

[Macgd016]

My experience is that if you stop and HOLD the stop/start engages straight away, but if I stop and hold the car on the brakes it depends on how hard I am pressing the brakes, if it very light the engine can stay on but then go off but if the brakes are on firmly the engine goes off.

However, the description in the online manual suggests that it could be that if you are at a Stop sign or behind a car that is pulling away or turn the wheel hard the engine will not stop but this description is ambiguous. It makes these statements but as events when the engine will stop but it mentions these after saying the engine stops when you brake to a halt so they seem superfluous. But if you read the 09/2020 manual it says

"If the system detects an intelligent stop inhibitor, e.g. a stop sign, the engine will not stop."

Which is why I wonder whether the earlier manuals are really saying the engine will not stop in these circumstances, not sure and haven't tried them out yet to see 🙄

Other than these I can't think of any 'driving conditions' that would effect SS

 

[Forrester]

I don't think the system has any AI capability and I generally think the MB garage I used have it wrong.

 

[Macgd016]

I drove through town today so took the opportunity to observe what my S/S is actually doing but its still not entirely clear to me.

What I can say is if I HOLD the S/S initiates straight away, if I pull up VERY gently and only have VERY light brake pressure S/S does not come on but if I pull up normally S/S comes on. I didn't observe a situation where S/S didn't come on at a junction when a car was pulling away in front of me but there was the odd occasion where I was expecting S/S to come on when it didn't and visa versa but I think this had more to do with brake pressure than anything else. I did note one occasion when pulling up on an upward incline that S/S did not come one until I initiated HOLD but overall I got the impression that the times S/S doesn't come on are due to brake pressure (possibly brake lights not on) rather than any AI or traffic sign recognition.

 

[Macgd016]

MB really are taking the biscuit with their service costs, which I think must have gone up recently. When I had my A Service a year ago I was quoted about £350 and as I was in dispute with them over some warranty issues I went ahead with it only to find I was actually charged £286, I have no idea why it was such a 'reasonable ' charge. However, I'm now coming up to my 2nd year service with just 9000 miles on the clock and MB are wanting £475 for a B Service and brake fluid change, when I questioned this I was told that it included their £11 environmental charge but oddly they didn't mention the very nice coffee & biscuits!

What a complete over charge for what is basically an oil and filter change, I realise they don't need to justify these exorbitant charges but they should at least try to stay competitive, checked out BMW and as far as I could see even they are much cheaper.

Rant over

 

[craggyislander]

MB really are taking the biscuit with their service costs, which I think must have gone up recently. When I had my A Service a year ago I was quoted about £350 and as I was in dispute with them over some warranty issues I went ahead with it only to find I was actually charged £286, I have no idea why it was such a 'reasonable ' charge. However, I'm now coming up to my 2nd year service with just 9000 miles on the clock and MB are wanting £475 for a B Service and brake fluid change, when I questioned this I was told that it included their £11 environmental charge but oddly they didn't mention the very nice coffee & biscuits!

What a complete over charge for what is basically an oil and filter change, I realise they don't need to justify these exorbitant charges but they should at least try to stay competitive, checked out BMW and as far as I could see even they are much cheaper.

Rant over

I ran some service quotes for my car through the Mercedes website for Brooklands. Each service got progressively more expensive as you say. The third and fourth go to the 5-600 quid plus region.
Best option and most cost effective is to use their service plan, I'm paying £30 a month.

 

[sr3rad]

You should worry my first A35 service $850 here in Adelaide, about £500 in real money. It does make you wonder about independent specialists but do they have access to all the techno magic?

 

[Macgd016]

I ran some service quotes for my car through the Mercedes website for Brooklands. Each service got progressively more expensive as you say. The third and fourth go to the 5-600 quid plus region.
Best option and most cost effective is to use their service plan, I'm paying £30 a month.

That is certainly true if you have one of the rare breed models or if you need a DCT gearbox oil change now that they have lowered the service schedule to such a ridiculously low mileage so that it catches many people at their second service, even if you are a low mileage user it probably saves you £100 over two services but the fundamental issue is MB are ripping us off.