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@DutchA45s that is great to know that, I am sure now you can enjoy the car even more! :)

Just for your information the CPC is definitely not responsible for your clutch slip.

Just like your car my TCU software is also currently stock at the moment, but with the CPC upgraded I was able to go for higher torque.
@changchewsoon , it would be great if you could verify my following conclusions with your Tuner, if you don't mind and post his responses here.

1) The ECU has tables which allow him to request increased clutch plate clamp load pressure from the TCU.
2) The CPC acts as a "Gate Keeper" and will not permit certain values to be exceeded, without recalibration.
3) As a result of (1), it is actually not necessary to access the TCU, purely from the objective of increased torque capacity.

Obviously your further input would be greatly appreciated.
 

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2021 AMG CLA45 S
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@changchewsoon , it would be great if you could verify my following conclusions with your Tuner, if you don't mind and post his responses here.

1) The ECU has tables which allow him to request increased clutch plate clamp load pressure from the TCU.
2) The CPC acts as a "Gate Keeper" and will not permit certain values to be exceeded, without recalibration.
3) As a result of (1), it is actually not necessary to access the TCU, purely from the objective of increased torque capacity.

Obviously your further input would be greatly appreciated.
Oh I certainly can't speak on behalf of him nor have my inputs because I am not capable of tuning the car entirely by myself.

This is what he said in general:
1. Yes, he is able to access certain areas of the ECU to have the clamp pressure increased which it sends the input to the TCU.

2. The CPC in stock will attempt to communicate with the ECU to reduce power when it doesn't like what it sees over a period of time.

3. As of present, we have left the TCU software completely untouched with the figures we're now putting to the wheels. In his opinion, having the TCU software calibrated would have its benefits such as faster shifts, and also it will not request the ECU to cut power temporarily during shifts which currently it does now.
 

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2021 AMG A45 S Plus, Sun Yellow, DTUK 470 PS, Akrapovic Evolution in Ti
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Interesting debate :)

I'm going a slightly different route for now, DTE tuning box shows +10% improvement in dragy times versus stock so I guess its about 10%+ better than stock on key measures which is about as claimed. Lets ignore the Litchfield dyno run on my box which was on Map 3 so useless...

The best thing about using a box is that it doesn't affect the CPC as that is fooled about the data just like the ECU. So I can run the 470 PS, 594 NM DTE box and the CPC thinks it stock. If you're going for this kind of increase its a no brainer to go with the box rather than a tune as Herr Hummes told me as its £400 rather than £2,000. For more HP/TQ, then sure the full ECU/TCU/new CPC is the way to go.

So anyway, I've just purchased the DTE TCU tune to throw into the mix. Seems like an easy install through the OBD2. Note that this is a tune to increase shift speeds and responsiveness rather than add more TQ clamping which is what I need given the above. I'll try and do some runs but I'm already behind since the last mods
 

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Whats involved in connecting up the dte box? Is it all accessible from the top or do you need a hoist/jacks?
 

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Whats involved in connecting up the dte box? Is it all accessible from the top or do you need a hoist/jacks?
There are three sensors to attach to, two on top but the boost sensor is underneath so the car needs to go on a lift ideally. Had mine fitted by Litchfield here in the UK.
 

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So what happens when you tune it? Wouldn't everything heat up sooner? I can live with it for now only happened twice in probably hundreds of runs, but tuned just how often would I have to lay off? Of course I see nobody complains so either everyone is pampering their tuned car or they got rid of AMG's overprotective safeties, which would mean that it can take a lot more than that. Honestly I don't think our engine is that fragile, so I'd put my money on AMG's overprotectiveness. Looking forward to your findings.
 

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Question:

There are currently 2 "tuning" threads - 1 General, 1 Technical.

The idea was, the general one was for mainly new members to find out what options there are, for recommendations for tuners, and pretty much any generic tuning query.

The technical one was going to be more for in-depth tuning discussions, logging, sensors, strategy, compressor map lines etc.


Invariably. - a degree of cross-posting and cross pollination has occurred. Which makes the general tuning thread difficult to read for a newbie just wanting to know basics, and options for tuning.



What do you want us to do?

1. Merge the 2 threads together
2. Try and split out general/generic tuning posts into the general thread, and split out the more technical ones to the technical thread?
3. Ignore it alltogether and keep the 2 threads as they are (in a mess!)

Personally, I'd go for option 2, but now is the time to do it (before it gets worse) - and it will need a concerted effort from all to try and keep the 2 topics separate, and distinct.

Over to you..... :)
 

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2016 A45 FL | Stage 1 @ 430bhp / 475ft-lb
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Question:

There are currently 2 "tuning" threads - 1 General, 1 Technical.

The idea was, the general one was for mainly new members to find out what options there are, for recommendations for tuners, and pretty much any generic tuning query.

The technical one was going to be more for in-depth tuning discussions, logging, sensors, strategy, compressor map lines etc.


Invariably. - a degree of cross-posting and cross pollination has occurred. Which makes the general tuning thread difficult to read for a newbie just wanting to know basics, and options for tuning.



What do you want us to do?

1. Merge the 2 threads together
2. Try and split out general/generic tuning posts into the general thread, and split out the more technical ones to the technical thread?
3. Ignore it alltogether and keep the 2 threads as they are (in a mess!)

Personally, I'd go for option 2, but now is the time to do it (before it gets worse) - and it will need a concerted effort from all to try and keep the 2 topics separate, and distinct.

Over to you..... :)
Just merge the threads together. The forum is quiet enough as it is without splitting it further.
 

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Oh I certainly can't speak on behalf of him nor have my inputs because I am not capable of tuning the car entirely by myself.

This is what he said in general:
1. Yes, he is able to access certain areas of the ECU to have the clamp pressure increased which it sends the input to the TCU.

2. The CPC in stock will attempt to communicate with the ECU to reduce power when it doesn't like what it sees over a period of time.

3. As of present, we have left the TCU software completely untouched with the figures we're now putting to the wheels. In his opinion, having the TCU software calibrated would have its benefits such as faster shifts, and also it will not request the ECU to cut power temporarily during shifts which currently it does now.
Thanks very much for your response and tuner's input..

Greatly appreciated and significantly contributes to my confidence in proceeding with my own project.
Once again, my sincere thanks to you both,
 

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So what happens when you tune it? Wouldn't everything heat up sooner? I can live with it for now only happened twice in probably hundreds of runs, but tuned just how often would I have to lay off? Of course I see nobody complains so either everyone is pampering their tuned car or they got rid of AMG's overprotective safeties, which would mean that it can take a lot more than that. Honestly I don't think our engine is that fragile, so I'd put my money on AMG's overprotectiveness. Looking forward to your findings.

I think you are correct about " AMG's overprotectiveness" :)
It would be consistent with their long standing attitude's to things like this.

However, please don't assume they are wrong.
They undoubtedly know A LOT more about their 210 HP/Litre production engine than any aftermarket Tuner.

The answer to the three questions in your post are:-
1) It happens sooner
2) Yes
3) No way of knowing until I complete my investigations, which having lost over a month, will now be well into the New Year.

Don't forget you are on an English speaking Board with the majority of members in the UK.
I don't know if you read / speak any German; however if you do, go onto a couple of their boards.
This last German summer a significant number of "tuned" M139's went "pop" on the Autobahn.

In the UK, I doubt you would see any issues, only holding WOT for 12 secs or less at any one time and either intentionally or unintentionally allowing a couple of minutes at speed under light load, e.g. 80 mph cruise condition, between full power runs.(Perfect for intercooler fluid heat dissipation).

Don't also forget the relatively small number of our cars actually delivered.
There are less than 100 in Australia and just like mine, most will have done no real work at all, for the obvious reason. I have done a quarter of my typical mileage and none of it in the way you use your vehicle. ( yet :))
I have no idea how many have been delivered in the UK.
Perhaps someone here can say.
How many do you think there are in Greece?

Small numbers delivered means even smaller numbers modified, so a very small data base.
I am sure there are more tuned M139's in Germany than anywhere else and as I said, they have definitely had issues this last Summer.
 

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2021 AMG A45 S Plus, Sun Yellow, DTUK 470 PS, Akrapovic Evolution in Ti
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I agree with your thesis
I think you are correct about " AMG's overprotectiveness" :)
It would be consistent with their long standing attitude's to things like this.

However, please don't assume they are wrong.
They undoubtedly know A LOT more about their 210 HP/Litre production engine than any aftermarket Tuner.

The answer to the three questions in your post are:-
1) It happens sooner
2) Yes
3) No way of knowing until I complete my investigations, which having lost over a month, will now be well into the New Year.

Don't forget you are on an English speaking Board with the majority of members in the UK.
I don't know if you read / speak any German; however if you do, go onto a couple of their boards.
This last German summer a significant number of "tuned" M139's went "pop" on the Autobahn.

In the UK, I doubt you would see any issues, only holding WOT for 12 secs or less at any one time and either intentionally or unintentionally allowing a couple of minutes at speed under light load, e.g. 80 mph cruise condition, between full power runs.(Perfect for intercooler fluid heat dissipation).

Don't also forget the relatively small number of our cars actually delivered.
There are less than 100 in Australia and just like mine, most will have done no real work at all, for the obvious reason. I have done a quarter of my typical mileage and none of it in the way you use your vehicle. ( yet :))
I have no idea how many have been delivered in the UK.
Perhaps someone here can say.
How many do you think there are in Greece?

Small numbers delivered means even smaller numbers modified, so a very small data base.
I am sure there are more tuned M139's in Germany than anywhere else and as I said, they have definitely had issues this last Summer.
I agree with your thesis and point out that the reputable German tuners (Brabus, Posaidon) are all done at 450-460 HP. Thats why I'm happy sticking with my DTE box at a fraction of their costs versus a tune and new CPC costing a lot more $$$. Whilst getting a slightly better result.

I'd put money on the rods failing rather than a temp problem on the next real big build. There are far better platforms for a big tune than a 2.0L 4 pot that is already very highly strung
 

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I agree with your thesis


I agree with your thesis and point out that the reputable German tuners (Brabus, Posaidon) are all done at 450-460 HP. Thats why I'm happy sticking with my DTE box at a fraction of their costs versus a tune and new CPC costing a lot more $$$. Whilst getting a slightly better result.

I'd put money on the rods failing rather than a temp problem on the next real big build. There are far better platforms for a big tune than a 2.0L 4 pot that is already very highly strung
LOL!!
That's why mine will get a set of Arrows, before I do anything serious!! :)
 

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LOL!!
That's why mine will get a set of Arrows, before I do anything serious!! :)
Just need to look at my A45 with 2.0L 4 pot 421 PS and then my E and G63's with 4.0L V8 and 612 PS, go figure what has headroom :)

Imagine putting two M139's together with a common crank for 842PS a bit like Bentley's W12 or Aston's V12.

And then tuning to 1,000HP for shits and giggles :)
 

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Just need to look at my A45 with 2.0L 4 pot 421 PS and then my E and G63's with 4.0L V8 and 612 PS, go figure what has headroom :)

Imagine putting two M139's together with a common crank for 842PS a bit like Bentley's W12 or Aston's V12.

And then tuning to 1,000HP for shits and giggles :)
Your 612 versus 842 numbers are the key comparison.
In other words, our A45s's have already had taken up all the "headroom" that AMG, (with their admittedly conservative approach) considered viable.

I have to say though, the further I go into our vehicle, the more evidence I see of the perfectly normal " cost effectiveness" approach of any vehicle OEM.

None of us, (except you, of course :)) purchased E63S's.

Like most things in modern manufacturing, you do get what you pay for.
Most of us purchased " entry level" AMG's.
Which is what we got.

Just on the basis of component inspection and without the necessary data logging, i already know that I am up for serious re engineering of:-
The fuel supply system
The Intercooler system
The Turbocharger
The Air intake system
The Exhaust system
Connecting rods.

What's more, notwithstanding @changchewsoon 's outstanding tuning results with his 8G-DCT and upward of 750 Nm torque input, I am well into discussions with our Kiwi friends regarding a more mechanically based long term durability solution to the transmission question.

So, an E63S it most certainly isn't!! :)
 

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Yeah, but Ed is about 550 miles away in Victoria - still in lickdown, and he does not have a gearbox!

I would still hold off your trip here. At least until you wont have to quarantine on arrival and there is free movement between states. Probably Q2 2022.
I'm never quite sure if he's had the gearbox changed with the old one being whisked back to Germany. We will find out shortly I'm sure.

Yes trip dates changed to Q2 next year after my daughter's wedding, the date of which had also to be changed to next year.
 

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Yeah, but Ed is about 550 miles away in Victoria - still in lockdown, and he does not have a gearbox!

I would still hold off your trip here. At least until you wont have to quarantine on arrival and there is free movement between states. Probably Q2 2022.
LOL!! :)
Like @Sixman says!!
**** Sydney centric English media!

Australia is a FEDERATION, not one country!! :)

Earliest I shall have an operational vehicle again sometime in early November.
Replacement box due into the dealership week commencing 23rd October
 

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The clocks ticking for us to see your numbers
Due to my gearbox issues and the fact that Australian businesses, (e.g. mechanical workshops) closes for Summer Holidays from around Friday the 17th December to Monday 17th January, (sort of like France or Italy in August), I am having to revise my data acquisition schedule.
I believe my state, Victoria, should have the curfew lifted around the same time I get my vehicle back, or perhaps slightly earlier. IE around the end of October.

Which is great; however I want to put at least a few thousand KM's on the new box, which probably means the 2,000 KM each way drive to and from my Sister's property at Christmas..

Does NOT mean I am stopping anything, just changing the sequence in which I am doing things, that's all.
 

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Oh man, I would not want to drive my A45s on a long Aus road trip...
Surely you have more comfortable cars. Now Iam the old man lol
 
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