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The new C63 with same engine has a bigger compressor with more power. The trade off being later spool / lag which they solve with electric spinning of the compressor wheel to get early boost.
E85 and/or water/meth will probably get more out of the current turbo on our cars.
E85 and water / meth may allow one to run our stock turbo into overspeed; however notwithstanding its build quality, (which is high), anything can be over revved.
The consequences of doing so are alwys the same, engine or turbo.
Centrifugal forces cannot be wished away.
 

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Restricted flow?




It's not so much about our displacement, but rather our turbo efficiency. 2 liter engines are perfectly capable of safely making north of 500 hp with the correct turbo and bolt ons; some may not even require internals as we all know. But when you have a turbo that's already operating at like 90% efficiency (overspeeding aside) then yes there's little you can do. Yes of course the 2.5 would give you slightly more headroom but that's hardly the issue here. If AMG wanted their hyper hatch to easily and safely make such figures they would have chosen the appropriate turbo, just like Audi did. But car makers don't think like the average enthusiast. Who thinks AMG couldn't have chosen a bigger turbo if they wanted? We can tune our cars as much as we want and not give a dam.n, they have things to consider such as consumption, emissions and marketing. The final product has to be attractive but without overshadowing others (called keeping pecking order in check) and it needs to comply with all regulations at the same time. And I guess the M139 is what came out. Simple as that. But I bet you guys already know that.
It is a little more than turbo efficiency, (more total Mass Flow); however most of what you say is spot on.
Take the "pecking order" out of the equation and an electric assist 450 HP turbo 2 litre would obviously be perfectly practical and could yet be in the Facelift.

However, they simply could not release that (in 2019) while they still had two years' production of the existing 2WD C63S to move, now could they?

Once they release the new hybrid AWD C63S, there will be room to move the Facelift A45S upwards accordingly, won't there!! :)
 

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It is a little more than turbo efficiency, (more total Mass Flow); however most of what you say is spot on.
Take the "pecking order" out of the equation and an electric assist 450 HP turbo 2 litre would obviously be perfectly practical and could yet be in the Facelift.

However, they simply could not release that (in 2019) while they still had two years' production of the existing 2WD C63S to move, now could they?

Once they release the new hybrid AWD C63S, there will be room to move the Facelift A45S upwards accordingly, won't there!! :)
Also room for greater A45s performance if the A63s is doing 0-62 in 3.0s. Which it will have to if it is going to take on the AWD M3.
 

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Restricted flow?
Possibly, although I have not yet set up my flow test system.
All the parts are dribbling in piece meal from MB Singapore, (where MB hold all their parts for the Far East) and MB Germany.
I only received the Intercooler itself and the small A/C to water heat exchanger, Friday.

The recovery radiator in my image was actually in stock at MB Australia, so i received it first and was able to post the image.

So, untested, admittedly, however just look at the water/ in/out connections.
They are actually opposite each other, at the bottom of the core.

The core is of a good size, 710 mm x 315 mm x 20 mm thick; however with the connections arranged as they are, how much of the core is going to do any work?
The tanks on either end are only 20 mm x 20mm square in section, so how much of the hot water is going to be evenly distributed across that core?

This is a classic example of how NOT to design any cross flow heat exchanger, being used for any application.
It 's one redeeming feature?
Easy (fast) to get to the connections during vehicle assembly.

The correct location for one of the connections is in the diagonal upper comer and I can only presume that complicated (made slower) vehicle assembly.
( Better designed end tanks wouldn't hurt, either).
 

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@Forrester
Sorry, I should have looked On- Line first, before asking. :)
I see what you mean!! :)

Knowing how those Bimmer guys like to Tune, it will be interesting to see the finite torque capacity of the M3/4's X-Drive
I was really surprised by the M3 times. Other than for space why buy the M5 and pocket £20k instead.
 

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I was really surprised by the M3 times. Other than for space why buy the M5 and pocket £20k instead.
Like I said, it is going to come down to the Torque capacity of those M3/4 X-Drives.

The Americans are nuts about Tuning their Bimmers and its one thing to put big numbers down through one axle, quite another to do it through two.
Time will tell :)
 

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A45s in Designo Mountain Grey Magno | Stage 1 - MSL | Armaspeed Carbon Cold Intake
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If it's slower, are you going to go back to the stage 1.
There is something about having more sound that makes me want to refine the stage 2 map and not revert back to stage 1. That being said if it still feels laggy around 3k, I will look to do a CPC map to see if that helps. If all fails, back to stock and find a new AMG haha.
 

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Thanks for that, much appreciated. This let's us all work out the driveline loss for your vehicle on this particular dyno.
Looks like around 30 HP.
Making your tuned peak around 465 HP Flywheel which sounds about right. ( Driveline losses are a fixed number, NOT a percentage)

@Forrester, I would say the total torque/ power collapse at around 2,750 RPM might have something to do with his slower accel times using his current tune.
Anyone for driveline safeguard "interference"?? (CPC?? TCU??)
I would love to understand this more! Was told it could be something to do with the CPC. Unfortunately, don't have the brain power to understand how that all works and how it is linked.
 

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I would love to understand this more! Was told it could be something to do with the CPC. Unfortunately, don't have the brain power to understand how that all works and how it is linked.
@changchewsoon has the most real world experience here with what is going on with your vehicle.
If he has the time I am sure he will be able to accurately explain it to you.

However, the graph you posted with the massive fall in the power curve around 2,750 RPM is a pretty good indicator of your issue.

How did your Tuner explain that to you when he gave you the graph?

It is true that the CPC is the most likely culprit, doing its job and protecting your drivetrain, (If somewhat over zealously)
 

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I doubt Brabus will ever release their tune outside Bottrop and the frequent ECU updates seem to be making it increasingly difficult for any tuner to keep up. You purchase a tune now and it works fine, couple months later your f*cked. And I don't find Brabus trustworthy; I can veeery easily and reasonably assume their gonna ditch the M139 at the first sign of trouble, leaving me with a tune that will be near impossible to sell. So with Brabus out of the picture, turns out I won't be tuning this car anytime soon. Maybe in a few years I might pull the trigger on one of those UK tunes (and drive the car accordingly), but they need to prove they are actively involved and won't bail out when a major update blocks everything. Unless I just refuse to receive any further updates after warranty expires, but some updates might be critical, you never know, I don't think that's an option.

So I guess there's no need to dyno my car after all, it is what it is. Fortunately it's a quick car, definitely doesn't disappoint. But I'm glad we had that dyno discussion @Turbo Ed. It might come in handy one day, perhaps on my next performance car if not the A45s. Thanks for all the info. :)

Sooo, first time in 14 years to keep a car stock. Feels weird.
 

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I doubt Brabus will ever release their tune outside Bottrop and the frequent ECU updates seem to be making it increasingly difficult for any tuner to keep up. You purchase a tune now and it works fine, couple months later your f*cked. And I don't find Brabus trustworthy; I can veeery easily and reasonably assume their gonna ditch the M139 at the first sign of trouble, leaving me with a tune that will be near impossible to sell. So with Brabus out of the picture, turns out I won't be tuning this car anytime soon. Maybe in a few years I might pull the trigger on one of those UK tunes (and drive the car accordingly), but they need to prove they are actively involved and won't bail out when a major update blocks everything. Unless I just refuse to receive any further updates after warranty expires, but some updates might be critical, you never know, I don't think that's an option.

So I guess there's no need to dyno my car after all, it is what it is. Fortunately it's a quick car, definitely doesn't disappoint. But I'm glad we had that dyno discussion @Turbo Ed. It might come in handy one day, perhaps on my next performance car if not the A45s. Thanks for all the info. :)

Sooo, first time in 14 years to keep a car stock. Feels weird.
@Theo, Don't give up yet.

1) See if there is a MSR500 in use in Greece.
2) IF there is, ask the tuner whose software they use for your car.
3) IF they use bFlash, out of Luxembourg, you should be fine.

By all accounts, those guys in Luxembourg are o top of the AMG change situation,
 

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@Theo, Don't give up yet.

1) See if there is a MSR500 in use in Greece.
2) IF there is, ask the tuner whose software they use for your car.
3) IF they use bFlash, out of Luxembourg, you should be fine.

By all accounts, those guys in Luxembourg are o top of the AMG change situation,
Are you saying AMG can't technically block bFlash?
 

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Are you saying AMG can't technically block bFlash?
LOL!! :)

No I am saying the reverse!!
It would appear that the guys in Luxembourg can get around AMG's blocks and not just on our vehicle.
Apparently AMG started to introduce similar tech to the high spec GT's ( R's and Black's) and BC Consulting appear to have even beaten that!!
 

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LOL!! :)

No I am saying the reverse!!
It would appear that the guys in Luxembourg can get around AMG's blocks and not just on our vehicle.
Apparently AMG started to introduce similar tech to the high spec GT's ( R's and Black's) and BC Consulting appear to have even beaten that!!
The real problem is the BC Consulting product is expensive, not easy (read "quick") to use and consequently not all Tuners use it.
I would hope any shop that is using a MSR500 would be using bFlash; however, there is no guarantee, which is why you need to do your own due diligence,
 

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LOL!! :)

No I am saying the reverse!!
It would appear that the guys in Luxembourg can get around AMG's blocks and not just on our vehicle.
Apparently AMG started to introduce similar tech to the high spec GT's ( R's and Black's) and BC Consulting appear to have even beaten that!!
Yeah, that's as long as the M139 is important to them, that's how everything works, if the product sells you keep the support. Apparently for Brabus it ain't worth the trouble. Anyways I'm a little disappointed Ed because this whole time Brabus has been my only option, for reasons I've already explained, the huge warranty they provide being the most important. Need to shift mindset here. Thanks. Have a good afternoon/evening mate.
 
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