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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

Quick question, I have a A200 Saloon. I am thinking about either a tuning box or doing a stage 1 remap, just for a bit of extra power. I've never done one one or had one before, wanted to see if anyone knew anything about it and if it's worth it? Also if it is safe and isn't going to damage the car or anything....


Any help would be appreciated

Dyl
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I also have an A200. In my opinion it seems quite highly tuned as standard (160bhp from a 1.3 litre!!!). I don’t know if you will gain much without risking damage.
Yeah don't get me wrong, it is nippy, just wanted that little extra push. They said they can fit it for me. It gives it just over 200bhp and 308 torque. They can take off whenever too, they're saying it doesn't effect the engine at all. Reviews seem good, just wanted to see if anyone has used before or has had any experience with it before...
 

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As you have a saloon I’m guessing you are still under warranty. Before fitting such a box I would be asking the supplier if MB could tell It has been fitted in the event of any warranty claims.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
As you have a saloon I’m guessing you are still under warranty. Before fitting such a box I would be asking the supplier if MB could tell It has been fitted in the event of any warranty claims.
Thank you - they said it's untraceable once removed or turned off. But I will double check with them in case...
 

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I had an A200, had pedalbox and tuning box fitted Tdi tuning one, had 190bhp and pulled hard in all gears! amazing what these little 1.3 renault engines can do, I dont know why everyone hates on them so much.
 

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Thank you - they said it's untraceable once removed or turned off. But I will double check with them in case...

Any company that says it is untraceable is lying. All well know international tuning companies make clear that tunes can be detected.

All tunes and tuning boxes are detectable whether they have been removed or turned off.

Its all about whether you can afford to take that risk with your warranty if anything goes wrong. If you can then go for it.

If you get any drivetrain or engine issues that you wish to claim for under warranty, good luck.

Personally if i wanted to get it tuned then i would accept the fact that means i am voiding my warranty.

I think we all must have come across the really bad case of a Seat owner who also had pcp and Seat pulled it. I think in that case he was super foolish because he kept making complaints about the dealer, so Seat had enough of him.


Heres how it flags on VAG systems

 

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All tunes and tuning boxes are detectable whether they have been removed or turned off.

I think we all must have come across the really bad case of a Seat owner who also had pcp and Seat pulled it. I think in that case he was super foolish because he kept making complaints about the dealer, so Seat had enough of him.


Heres how it flags on VAG systems

I'm not 100% what you're saying is accurate.

The SEAT owner took his car into a dealer with aftermarket parts fitted and a remap installed. It should've been fairly obvious that his warranty would be voided. With a tuning box removed there would be no evidence of tampering with the ECU software nor with the wiring loom, so it's really a totally different kettle of fish.

Given that tuning boxes normally feed the ECU false sensor data, as far as the car is concerned it is operating normally. Obviously there are certain sensors which you couldn't safely falsify data for, engine coolant temp for example. So if a tuning box increases boost, timing, fuel pressure etc. it has to do that whilst working with the majority of OEM safeguards still in place.

As the other article you linked mentions, it would be very difficult for a car to self diagnose it has a tuning box fitted by design. The primary way the ECU could detect something was wrong would be through it's estimation of the engines power and torque. These measurements are guesstimates at the best of times. Unless I'm missing something?
 

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I'm not 100% what you're saying is accurate.

The SEAT owner took his car into a dealer with aftermarket parts fitted and a remap installed. It should've been fairly obvious that his warranty would be voided. With a tuning box removed there would be no evidence of tampering with the ECU software nor with the wiring loom, so it's really a totally different kettle of fish.

Given that tuning boxes normally feed the ECU false sensor data, as far as the car is concerned it is operating normally. Obviously there are certain sensors which you couldn't safely falsify data for, engine coolant temp for example. So if a tuning box increases boost, timing, fuel pressure etc. it has to do that whilst working with the majority of OEM safeguards still in place.

As the other article you linked mentions, it would be very difficult for a car to self diagnose it has a tuning box fitted by design. The primary way the ECU could detect something was wrong would be through it's estimation of the engines power and torque. These measurements are guesstimates at the best of times. Unless I'm missing something?
Aside from all that.... The seat link was an example of one of the worst cases of a manufacturer pulling warranty...

The point stands, you tune your car, good luck to you regarding warranty.
 

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Doesnt matter in what manner they are detectable, the fact is that they are.

System flags a suspected tuning box. Thats it, dealer reports to mercedes. Dealer says no.

Its honestly not a debating point, its not my opinion, its just how it is.

Speak to any well known tuning company, not these resellers, and they will confirm what im trying to tell you.

If this wasnt the case then the tuning companies would all happily provide you with a cast iron legal guarantee that it is undetectable.
 

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Doesnt matter in what manner they are detectable, the fact is that they are.

System flags a suspected tuning box. Thats it, dealer reports to mercedes. Dealer says no.

Its honestly not a debating point, its not my opinion, its just how it is.

Speak to any well known tuning company, not these resellers, and they will confirm what im trying to tell you.

If this wasnt the case then the tuning companies would all happily provide you with a cast iron legal guarantee that it is undetectable.
It absolutely matters how detectable they are. If an ECU were to flag a tuning box, Mercedes would have to prove that one had been in use in order to refuse a warranty claim.

Stating that they suspected one has been used would not be sufficient.

We’ve established that mapping and tuning boxes can void warranty. No one is arguing that. The point is that, if handled correctly, it’s extremely unlikely a tuning box would be detectable.
 

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It absolutely matters how detectable they are. If an ECU were to flag a tuning box, Mercedes would have to prove that one had been in use in order to refuse a warranty claim.

Stating that they suspected one has been used would not be sufficient.

We’ve established that mapping and tuning boxes can void warranty. No one is arguing that. The point is that, if handled correctly, it’s extremely unlikely a tuning box would be detectable.
Sadly thats simply not true, they do not have to prove anything. Show me how you would handle it and why its extremely unlikely?

If they suspect it, they can do what they like, there are countless examples of this actually happening. Your only recourse would be legal action and its quite unlikely you'd be successful, aside from the costs of doing so.

This game that some of you seem to wish to play with trying to deceive the manufacturer is all well and good, i say go for it if you can afford the risk.

Add in that most people purchase their cars on finance and you're in an even worse position.

Youtuber LLF aka riccardo senior found this out to his cost last year.

 

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Sadly thats simply not true, they do not have to prove anything. Show me how you would handle it and why its extremely unlikely?

If they suspect it, they can do what they like, there are countless examples of this actually happening. Your only recourse would be legal action and its quite unlikely you'd be successful, aside from the costs of doing so.

This game that some of you seem to wish to play with trying to deceive the manufacturer is all well and good, i say go for it if you can afford the risk.

Add in that most people purchase their cars on finance and you're in an even worse position.

Youtuber LLF aka riccardo senior found this out to his cost last year.
Car manufacturers have to obey contract law, just like the rest of us. They have agreed to provide you a warranty and can't revoke that agreement without a valid reason. Is a tuning box being fitted a valid reason - yes! Of course it is, but if you remove the box and wiring loom every time the cars goes back to the dealer then how would they know. I'm sure you don't dispute that there would be no physical evidence left behind. Nor any changes to flash counters or checksums within the ECU itself.

Perhaps they rely on the ECU having gathered sensor data? The problem is that using historic data alone would make it very hard to pinpoint the cause of an issue. Not to mention that well designed tuning boxes intentionally avoid messing with sensor data for things which are logged for long periods of time. An example would be avoiding the fuel pressure sensor because most ECUs log long term fuel trims.

But what if the ECU is able to outright monitor for tuning boxes? Well, you'd be screwed, but I can't find any evidence of this technology being in play. You earlier posted a link which mentioned the TB1 code used by VW to mark cars which were suspected of having tuning boxes fitted past or present. However I've been unable to find any examples of people's warranty being voided based on this code. I also can't find any reliable info on if the code even exists. It seems to appear on one screenshot of a TSB from VW however no other examples of it appear online anywhere.

This seems suspect when you look at other such codes. The TD1 code for example which concerns remaps, has multiple documented cases of people's claims being denied based on it along with being mentioned on multiple internal VW documents.

You're right regarding mods to financed car but what happened to Ricky isn't really relevant here. His mods were far more extreme than a simple tuning box and widely publicized.
 
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