[Macgd016]

I had a thought the other day,

if the Stand-by function ( not available on all cars eg UK) can read the SOC (StatusOf Charge) and it also appears that irrespective of whether you have the stand-by function or not, you can display your voltage along with Power (KW), Turbo Boost, Torque (NM) why not display SOC on the dashboard.

This way we can minimise somewhat, the parking anxiety we get when leaving the car in the garage. We can thence determine when to put the car on a charger, just like when we look at the fuel gauge to determine when to put petrol in the car.

As it is we do not know the SOC at any stage and repeated small distance drives maybe depleting the battery reducing its ability to remain locked up in the garage for any length of time.

This simply seems a common sense feature for a car that has a heavy load on its battery and a smart alternator that charges intermittently. It simply gives some degree of certainty and control back to the owner.

The only spanned in the works I can see is that the SOC value/module/calculation is not built into cars without the Stand-by function ( I.e in the UK), and this would be shame, as the ability to display the SOC would otherwise mainly be a software update to a digital display.

The software merely needs to read the value and display it. After all we can see the voltage in real time, we can see if and when the alternator is charging the battery, the car has a warning message when the battery charge is critical, so why then can’t we see the SOC on the dashboard.

Maybe I don’t know What is what, but I really would like something to help me plan when to put the car on a charger and not simply because it is critical, but rather let me decide when it is suitable time as part of my busy schedule. That is, when will the car will be in the garage for a day and a night let’s say, to give a good charge and make the effort of plugging and unplugging worthwhile.

Something to think about I guess.

MB could remove the need for any of this by finding out what it is that is discharging our batteries whilst they are not in use but given that they are not going to do this you have an excellent point, you could extend this to providing the Status of Charge and voltage on their phone app so that you can see it real-time from the comfort of your home

 

[First and last]

MB could remove the need for any of this by finding out what it is that is discharging our batteries whilst they are not in use but given that they are not going to do this you have an excellent point, you could extend this to providing the Status of Charge and voltage on their phone app so that you can see it real-time from the comfort of your home

Fully agree, and just think, the effort resolving the issue one way or the other will dovetail into the rollout of the EV’s. Battery drain should also occur in EV’s, why wouldn’t it if some of the electrical components have faults.

I bet the EV rollouts underway already provide a readout of the SOC on the dashboard.

I cannot imagine how you could you sell a fully electric car without it. You would have to know how much charge you have and thence an estimate of the average distance you can cover based on your driving style.

We seem to be in a vacuum, a void. Logic says we should be able to be provided a better more timely solution to our issues, but they are just not forthcoming. It is a sad situation.

 

[veeeight]

An example today of why just using no-load battery voltage on its own is a poor indicator of battery health.

Two AGM batteries.
Both cars not started for 5 days.
Both measuring 12.1V no load.

With a SOC tester:
Battery 1 reports 100% SOC
Battery 2 reports 59% SOC

 

[First and last]

Sorry, but I am not sure what this is telling me.

I have heaps of questions to ask that would better put things into perspective for me, but I doubt they would be productive right now.

My apologies but I have come to the conclusion that there are just so many variables affecting outcomes in anything we say regarding such a complex car. My brain simply hurts 😒

What may be right in one car may not be in another.

and I guess I am simply over all this.

and personally from my research AGM batteries are a great choice for use in the car, their technology seems perfectly fitting for the W177. It is old tech, proven, reliable, and appropriate.

It is worth noting that I am a simply customer who knows nothing about batteries before this, and have just trying to understand what is what.

What I know Is from forced reasearch because of my battery drain that cannot be resolved or answered by MB to date.

MB have not been able to tell me anything, they cannot tell me what is normal or what is not. Nor what is their plan of attack.

They are looking into it, that is all I know.

My evidence and research is based on the MB technology that is built into the car, and it tells me that the Stand-by function built and installed by MB in my car, simply does not work. It needs to fixed.

There may be other components in the car that are faulty, causing Stand-by not to function, and cause other battery life issues, I just do not know.

The stand-by feature in my car just does not achieve the battery life expectancy indicated under the MB algorithms, and displayed on the dashboard.

The battery life in my car is poor and unreliable at best but if stand-by works it may give me the confidence I seek, and lower my stress levels.

My problems I believe are with the car Itself, it’s build, it’s configuration and it’s features, not the battery.

And I guess more to the point, I really, really don’t want to know.

I want MB to know, and if they could simply answer my questions and provide the comfort I seek I would not even be on this forum. Simple as.

If others have the same or similar issues around battery life/drain, their is strength in numbers, if not I have to fight on alone.

I do not want to play guessing games with the car each day, will you start or will you not. Especially in a crisis. I did not buy a MB for this outcome.

Each car can be differently configured, and each car can have different electrical components that are faulty, and thus affect battery life.

Their is no simply answer, I get that.

The isolation forced on us by the virus, has brought my concerns into focus.

As I now see it, my concerns are MB issues to resolve. Simple as.

My apologies if I seem edgy, it is just taking sooo long to get the car working to specification that it is taking its toll.

 

[Macgd016]

Wow, I thought the replacement battery had eased your discharging problems @First and last, clearly not.

I'm sorry I cant offer any words of wisdom on this except to say that my dealer has said that when they hook a car up to their diag machine they can see which module in the car is putting a load on the car when it's switched off and locked, in other words what is switching itself on and off and draining the battery. With this knowledge they 'should' be able to then do something about it.

In your case,for what ever reason, they don't seem to be doing this. All I can suggest is use this snippet of info to challenge them and ask why they have not found the cause of your battery drain and then give them just one last opportunity to repair it, otherwise you will reject the car (if this is what you can do in Australia). I would suggest doing this in writing addressed to the general manager of the supplying dealership.

I cant see what else you can do, your battery problem is far different from the 3 plus week drain that many of us have experienced in lockdown, so your car seems to have a clear fault on it that needs repairing, as you have given MB several opportunities to repair it you need to bring this to a head one way or the other.

Best of luck

 

[First and last]

Yowza. That’s incredible. I cannot understand why that has not been applied in my case. This is excellent advice and knowledge. Simple solution. Thank you Thank you.

I am very very happy to hear of the support you have been able to receive.

I have been somewhat staggered by some of the clumsiness that I have been experiencing. The car (W177) would have been released here sometime after your market, usual thing.

So knowledge in our dealerships, maybe also behind yours. But not if they refer to Mercedes on a global basis. So don’t know what is what.

Most of the people in the dealerships here do not seem to know what “stand-by mode” is.

Mercedes, (not the dealer) initially thought I was talking about “stop/start“ and referred me back to the dealers when they found out I wasn’t. They did not apparently have any experience or knowledge around the stand-by Mode

I feel I am educating them. It is dyslexic.

Not heard of the ability to reject a car in our market. I believe Mercedes who own responsibility under warranty, only have to repair it, and this is the only path open to me.

And this is not going anywhere at present. I just want a car that works to specifications.

I will push forward with your info and see where it goes. Thank you thank you thank you

You have given me a lifeline 👍

 

[Macgd016]

Not heard of the ability to reject a car in our market. I believe Mercedes who own responsibility under warranty, only have to repair it, and this is the only path open to me.

Yes you do!

Just bought a new car?

If something goes wrong with your new car, you may be entitled to a remedy under the consumer guarantees as well as the manufacturer's warranty or any extended warranty you might have.

www.accc.gov.au

Scroll down to If your new car fails to meet the consumer guarantees

Based on the history of your fault and the fact if the car wont start it could put your lives in danger, I think this is what you have implied somewhere earlier in this thread, I would put it in writing that you will give them one last chance to fix it, you don't want it back until they can prove that they have fixed it and that you want a courtesy car whilst they do so.

It might work ..... or not

 

[First and last]

Cool. Wow. I will look into this closely.

I really cannot thank you enough. I will keep you informed of my outcome.

Maybe this is why they have been so indecisive to my requests so far.

You truely are a person of many skills.

 

[First and last]

Just had a quick look and yes! I believe you are 100% right.

It looks like the rules have been tightened up.

Gives me good ammunition to push for resolution.

Thank you, thank you thank you

 

[Macgd016]

This is just a quick post script, I bought my A250 six month old with 800 miles on the clock, picking it up in Norwich and drove it back I to Bristol so the battery sould have been fully charged when I got home. I mainly do short trips with occasional long journeys but like others in early lock down received the Critical battery warning.

In post #30 I said that the on board volt meter normally showed 12v+ during normal driving with this rising to 14v+ when coasting.

When I took my car to the dealers in June they replaced the battery under warrenty, presumably because they found that the SOC was not right, i now find that unless the lights are on the voltage during normal driving is 14v+ and during coasting 14.9v, the only time it drops below this is when the engine is stopped when it drops to 12.7v.

My guess is that as my car had only done 800 miles in 6 months it had been laid up for a long time which lead to the battery going flat and damaging it. Any how for now at least I seem to have a well functioning battery and what I take from this is if the voltage drops to 12v+ during normal driving I will probably give it a quick charge with my CTEK just to keep it in prime condition.

 

[GraemeW]

Just for the record, my car is suffering regular low battery/critical battery warnings although it is only a couple of months old. It is on charge now as today the screen display was telling me critical battery and I have received emails. If the car is displaying messages I can't see this is a mercedes-me fault. At the moment it isn't used a lot but then again other cars I have had have had similar treatment without problems. It isn't garaged so charging is not convenient. It obviously needs a bigger battery so it has more capacity to deal with any power use between driving charges.

 

[First and last]

This is just a quick post script, I bought my A250 six month old with 800 miles on the clock, picking it up in Norwich and drove it back I to Bristol so the battery sould have been fully charged when I got home. I mainly do short trips with occasional long journeys but like others in early lock down received the Critical battery warning.

In post #30 I said that the on board volt meter normally showed 12v+ during normal driving with this rising to 14v+ when coasting.

When I took my car to the dealers in June they replaced the battery under warrenty, presumably because they found that the SOC was not right, i now find that unless the lights are on the voltage during normal driving is 14v+ and during coasting 14.9v, the only time it drops below this is when the engine is stopped when it drops to 12.7v.

My guess is that as my car had only done 800 miles in 6 months it had been laid up for a long time which lead to the battery going flat and damaging it. Any how for now at least I seem to have a well functioning battery and what I take from this is if the voltage drops to 12v+ during normal driving I will probably give it a quick charge with my CTEK just to keep it in prime condition.

Glad to hear things have stabilised .. pretty much the same for me..

I am resigned to the fact that you must periodically use a charger as part of your normal routine. Further, you must leave your car on a charger if you go away.

They, I believe are the new realities of life. Without knowing battery SOC at any point and whether the battery is charging or drawing power when driving, it pays to use the charger, to be sure, to be sure.

And of course charging the battery fully before going away on leave, and leaving it on trickle charge while away.

My car has been checked over by the dealer and tweaked. I have yet to test the stand by readings as I have previously. I will, but at my leisure, as I am really really over the testing thing. It is what it is.

I have been advised the standby has improved noticeably and my gut feeling is the alternator is charging more readily than before. Watching the dial it seems the charging function is much more responsive. So that is positive as well.

I feel the car is now stable, it holds a charge longer than previously, and will be reliable. And like you, I will use the charger to provide additional confidence and to make sure the battery charge levels are maintained long term.

 

[GraemeW]

Did a good run yesterday (80 miles) just to charge the battery and bought a Ctek and gave it four hours on that. Reading 12.6v at that point (up from 11.7). Never been sure whether I was playing around with buttons which was causing previous battery warnings so I am avoiding that and checkeing daily now. In 24hrs dropped to 12.3v.

 

[Macgd016]

Did a good run yesterday (80 miles) just to charge the battery and bought a Ctek and gave it four hours on that. Reading 12.6v at that point (up from 11.7). Never been sure whether I was playing around with buttons which was causing previous battery warnings so I am avoiding that and checkeing daily now. In 24hrs dropped to 12.3v.

As you will have read I did a lot of testing a few months ago and found that the only way to get a reasonable idea of the daily voltage drop is to not use the car for a few days, open the bonnet, lock the car up and test the voltage at the battery with a meter and test at the same time if day.

Of course if you have a State of Charge meter all the better but not many of us have.

Any other way just adds a whole load of variables that make any readings meaningless.

I found that testing this way I had between 0.2 and 0.3v drop per day (possibly due to temp difference), this didn't seem high but it is higher than I would have expected which the dealer agreed with. Apparently they have a diagnostic tool that enables them to historically look at what has been using battery when the car is locked up & on mine they found that one of the CAN bus had been waking up too often so they reset it & put a new battery in. All good for now.

 

[First and last]

Did a good run yesterday (80 miles) just to charge the battery and bought a Ctek and gave it four hours on that. Reading 12.6v at that point (up from 11.7). Never been sure whether I was playing around with buttons which was causing previous battery warnings so I am avoiding that and checkeing daily now. In 24hrs dropped to 12.3v.

Just a thought, and my 10cents worth of advice, consider dropping the car into the dealer and having the battery checked to see if it will hold a charge.

Not sure of your driving pattern but,

Short trips can drain the battery, but regular long trips to charge the battery can be inconvenient.

If the battery is a dud, best to get it replaced. From what you have mentioned you have received multiple battery critical messages and that is not good. It is possible that your battery will not hold a charge and thus have a bad battery.

A battery test by the dealer will require the car to be left overnight, so it is inconvenient but better in the long run and it can allow the dealer to consider if other tweaks may help.

I am getting the idea that the dealers may be getting more expertise in resolving these issues 😊

 

[GraemeW]

Thank you for your helpful comments. I intend to book the car but wanted a clearer picture of whether the battery was dropping of it's own accord. I had used the in-car display, leaving it long enough to settle, but I take your point Mac and will open the bonnet and test at the battery.

 

[First and last]

Wow, I thought the replacement battery had eased your discharging problems @First and last, clearly not.

I'm sorry I cant offer any words of wisdom on this except to say that my dealer has said that when they hook a car up to their diag machine they can see which module in the car is putting a load on the car when it's switched off and locked, in other words what is switching itself on and off and draining the battery. With this knowledge they 'should' be able to then do something about it.

In your case,for what ever reason, they don't seem to be doing this. All I can suggest is use this snippet of info to challenge them and ask why they have not found the cause of your battery drain and then give them just one last opportunity to repair it, otherwise you will reject the car (if this is what you can do in Australia). I would suggest doing this in writing addressed to the general manager of the supplying dealership.

I cant see what else you can do, your battery problem is far different from the 3 plus week drain that many of us have experienced in lockdown, so your car seems to have a clear fault on it that needs repairing, as you have given MB several opportunities to repair it you need to bring this to a head one way or the other.

Best of luck

Glad to hear things have stabilised .. pretty much the same for me..

I am resigned to the fact that you must periodically use a charger as part of your normal routine. Further, you must leave your car on a charger if you go away.

They, I believe are the new realities of life. Without knowing battery SOC at any point and whether the battery is charging or drawing power when driving, it pays to use the charger, to be sure, to be sure.

And of course charging the battery fully before going away on leave, and leaving it on trickle charge while away.

My car has been checked over by the dealer and tweaked. I have yet to test the stand by readings as I have previously. I will, but at my leisure, as I am really really over the testing thing. It is what it is.

I have been advised the standby has improved noticeably and my gut feeling is the alternator is charging more readily than before. Watching the dial it seems the charging function is much more responsive. So that is positive as well.

I feel the car is now stable, it holds a charge longer than previously, and will be reliable. And like you, I will use the charger to provide additional confidence and to make sure the battery charge levels are maintained long term.

Just a quick update.

I am definitely getting a better charge in the battery whilst driving the car. The alternator is more sensitive and charging more often and longer than before whilst driving.

On one occasion after normal driving around the local area stopping starting shopping and getting things to eat i.e. Out and about for half a day, I returned a GAIN of 10 wks battery charge ( stand by power readout ) ... yowza, the only way I got that sort of gain before was after around 200km drive and the other day after a simple drive of about 2 kms up the road in school pick up traffic (read stop/start) I gained three wks.

This totally excites me. Before I worried that even if my battery was low but the car would start, Iwould flatten the battery after driving let’s say to a doctors surgery only a short distance away. and be stranded. I was consistently losing battery charge whilst driving the car. As well as in lock down.

My “smart” alternator is now way way more smarter.

So in summary to get over my anxiety, I have

• Had a new battery installed under warranty
• Bought a charger that seemed to condition the new battery and improved battery performance. Allowing it to hold a charge better.
• Had the car tweeked at the dealer and now have a smarter alternator, possibly due to new software

And thus now have confidence that under my normal urban driving my battery and car will support my daily needs and I have a charger in reserve to top it up and keep the battery in good condition.

I have not tested battery drain in “ stand by” mode yet ( I have the charger so no urgency anymore, and not sure MB or myself can do any more than has been done to resolve it, if it is still not right) but will test it when we go into lock down again which I expect will happen soon, as the virus spreads it’s second wave.

I may not be any wiser as to the actual cause and what actual improvements were made as no clear explanation has been forthcoming but I can live with the outcome now with less anxiety, and have the charger in reserve ( and for when I go away) to cover any shortcommings.

The real takeaway that gives me pleasure is the smarter alternator, love it, love it, love it.

 

[veeeight]

love it, love it, love it.

You are Cherish Finden, and I claim my £5.

 

[First and last]

You are Cherish Finden, and I claim my £5.

Sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

Is it something to do with UK culture that is going over my head?

 

[Macgd016]

Sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you mean.

Is it something to do with UK culture that is going over my head?

It sure is, it went over my head and I'm British 🤣

I had to look it up, she is some sort of minor TV celeb

@veeeight you are giving away your viewing habits 🤣🤣🤣