What model rear diff oil needs to be replaced ？75W-85？75W-90or75W-140？
A45xxxllx
@veeeight will address the Tier One supplier question.
I think you may well be correct re Magna in the VAG product; however, you are not where it comes to our W177 vehicles.
You MIGHT be able to use similar lubricants in both suppliers' components, however I wouldn't take that as gospel, that's for sure.
Simply order and use the MB P/N lubricants and definitely for where you live, change them all every six months.
Number 1 reason for changing the A45s rear coupling sections (Left & Right) more often, as opposed to less often:
The A45s configuration and calibration is to give “more” rear drive feeling, say compared to a Golf 8R. So the rear coupling clutches (Left & Right) are experiencing more slip engagement more of the time. Slipping clutches in oil leads the oil to deteriorate quicker than non slipping clutches
The M-B spec oil for the rear couplings (Left & Right) is M-B 235.64 - A0009894406. 0.4 litres per side. Shell Equivalent TF0870 B. The “B” is different to the G8R non-B oil suffix? Does this make a huge difference? Don’t know.🤷♂️ But I would stick to the M-B part number above.
LOL!!
I'll second that!!
Particularly as I have A LOT of personal experience in the ME and know HOW they use their vehicles, in addition to the ambient conditions.
Was our friend in the ME correct regarding Magna being the Tier One on the VAG differential assemblies?
@veeeight, are you able to identify which of the Magna Europe plants builds the rear axle assembly in the VAG product?
The A45S rear axle assembly definitely comes from Graz, out of what used to be the Steyr plant, before the takeover.No, I don't know. If I were to guess, Graz. But that's a guess. Low-Res drawings of the rear drives of the G8R and A45s show the mounts and casings look different. So maybe just similar internals? After all, there only a limited number of ways you can get a twin clutch and hypoid gear set to look
M-B do not have a schedule or procedure for changing the centre hypoid gear set oil. "Lubed for Life"........ and do not list any products for 235.63 oil. I dare say that regular changes of a good quality 75W80 Hypoid oil will be suitable, if you are so inclined
![Image]()
Your Hypoid gear set oil is precisely what I use.
Well, that would be more useful than OEM Marketing Dept service schedules and processes!!
Which is all the more reason for sticking with AMG's P/N 's for lubricants.
The small amount which one may save by using those recommended for the VAG variants of the rear axle assembly is simply a false economy.
As usual, @veeeight has nailed it in his post.
Precisely what I use.
I would recommend my manufacturer, however it is an Australian lubrication company, so no use to you in the ME or our European members.
I note with interest @veeeight has also recommended a specialty lubrication company, however more conveniently based in the UK.
They may well export to the ME.
No use to members in Europe or the ME; however, all my vehicles use Penrite oils, formulated right here in Melbourne and who know only too well the demands of our environment. Have used their GL-5 in all my differential assemblies, including the 1500 HP Ute, for years.
@Forrester et alIt's not ideal the situation we collectively find ourselves in around this lubricant situation. I'm guessing from @fatty45, response to my diff oil MB used, it is not necessarily exactly correct but it's not possible to tell for sure but it's generically possible it is correct.
I would be interested in @Turbo Ed experience on this in Australia. Or have I missed it in the size of the post
The only reason I have not been involved in this discussion recently, is that I thought I made my views clear, posts ago.
To reiterate and add slightly.
1) Never believe OEM's so called "service recommendation intervals".
2) OEM Dealerships in this country at least, are staffed by individuals who could not / can't get a job in the quality independent service industry.
3) After first service, (whenever that is specified) my vehicles are always serviced at quality independents, depending upon the brand. (In this country, they tend to specialize)
5) I specify the change intervals, brand and grades of lubricants used.
6) I use a local lubricant supplier where I can, as they have almost 100 years' experience in one of the world's harshest lubricant environments.
7) I have used their GL-5 (as @veeeight has been stating repeatedly) in the hypoid ring gear section of the rear axle assembly of all my vehicles for many years.
8) The two side clutch packs in our rear axle assembly are relatively rare in this country.
If you added all the MB and VAG variants using this tech here, I doubt it would total 1000 vehicles.
Consequently, the local lubricant supplier, at least the last time I checked, had not released their version of 235.64.
Which, again as @veeeight has been repeatedly stating, is the correct MB spec. for the side clutch packs and as far as I can see, for worldwide usage.
So, my independent workshop purchases the side clutch pack lubricant, (usually without trouble I should say), from our local MB dealership, which by pure coincidence is also from where the vehicle was sold.
Now, like @veeeight, I am also out of here.
Correct lubricant specification for a given application is not "micro analysis" it is prudent behavior.
Knowing only too well the cost of our gearbox, I hate to think of the cost of our rear axle assembly!!!
NOW gone!!
No aftermarket version of 235.64 in this country, to the best of my knowledge, which is precisely why my independent keeps buying it from the local MB Dealership.
In all my vehicles, this would be the first time I have had to do this in at least 40 years.
Turbine housing and exhaust manifold currently in LA, should be back early June at the latest.
Rods are due from Arrow around mid-June.
Head should be finished around the same time.
Then up to my Engine Builder.
If it is on the Dyno for Tuning sometime in August, I shall consider that the best possible outcome.
Won't surprise me if it turns out to be October.
Completely off topic, as was your query.
What to do when your "Daily" project turns out to be a total pain in the ***s?
Purchase a final year build Abarth 695, for which one can purchase, off the shelf hardware to achieve my 6 Lb /HP. (IE 400HP)
I don't know myself.
Like a kid in a toy shop!!
I am in the UK from early September until mid-October, which may also impact upon when the A45s is actually on the Dyno.
NOW we are all seriously off topic!!
@veeeight will NOT be pleased,
Guys,
OK I think we are all in agreement that obtaining the correct lubricants for our rear axle assemblies through the MB Network is problematic, at best.
So, I have been spending recent days talking to Magna, (who, incidentally, claim our assemblies were designed and are built in a different Magna facility to the VAG products, however who really knows, outside Magna) and then to various large European lubricant suppliers, on the basis my local Australian specialist lubricant supplier is of no use to most of you.
So, firstly the rear axle differential oil; MB reference 235.63 This should be GL-5 rated SAE spec 75W-80 oil, in my opinion a full synthetic. (Some companies claim to meet the spec with a partial synthetic). Many large European companies offer this oil as a full synthetic; however, the company with the widest distribution, literally across the world and therefore of the most use to all members here, is the German company FUCHS. So best to start there.
Then, the unique, (as far as I can tell) to our vehicles, the side clutch pack oil; MB reference 235.64.
According to Magna, this IS different to the VAG spec.
Both the oils apparently are only made by SHELL.
I cannot swear to this, given the number of specialty lubricant manufacturers in the world.
However, if we are talking a true muti national lubricant distribution system, so everyone here can use the info, I think SHELL is it.
Shades of the Spark Plug fiasco.
The VAG product supposedly uses SHELL's TF 0870
Our vehicles use SHELL's TF 0870 B
The difference apparently all being in the B.
Now, I am not saying your local SHELL distributor will have it on the shelf; however, they SHOULD be able to order it in for any of you.
Like I say, really reminds me of the Spark Plug scenario.
For a "mas produced" vehicle, our cars are unique in so many areas it is really quite extraordinary.
No wonder the typical MB Dealership Workshop / Parts Dept are completely out of their depth.
OK I think we are all in agreement that obtaining the correct lubricants for our rear axle assemblies through the MB Network is problematic, at best.
So, I have been spending recent days talking to Magna, (who, incidentally, claim our assemblies were designed and are built in a different Magna facility to the VAG products, however who really knows, outside Magna) and then to various large European lubricant suppliers, on the basis my local Australian specialist lubricant supplier is of no use to most of you.
So, firstly the rear axle differential oil; MB reference 235.63 This should be GL-5 rated SAE spec 75W-80 oil, in my opinion a full synthetic. (Some companies claim to meet the spec with a partial synthetic). Many large European companies offer this oil as a full synthetic; however, the company with the widest distribution, literally across the world and therefore of the most use to all members here, is the German company FUCHS. So best to start there.
Then, the unique, (as far as I can tell) to our vehicles, the side clutch pack oil; MB reference 235.64.
According to Magna, this IS different to the VAG spec.
Both the oils apparently are only made by SHELL.
I cannot swear to this, given the number of specialty lubricant manufacturers in the world.
However, if we are talking a true muti national lubricant distribution system, so everyone here can use the info, I think SHELL is it.
Shades of the Spark Plug fiasco.
The VAG product supposedly uses SHELL's TF 0870
Our vehicles use SHELL's TF 0870 B
The difference apparently all being in the B.
Now, I am not saying your local SHELL distributor will have it on the shelf; however, they SHOULD be able to order it in for any of you.
Like I say, really reminds me of the Spark Plug scenario.
For a "mas produced" vehicle, our cars are unique in so many areas it is really quite extraordinary.
No wonder the typical MB Dealership Workshop / Parts Dept are completely out of their depth.
Absolutely, my error, shall edit the post,
Yup, just make sure you get the B for our cars.
@Theo , I was actually going to post on this last night my time, after my initial quick response to @veeeightThere is a Fuchs Titan Sintofluid 75W-80 which is GL-5 but is listed as manual transmission fluid. Note the name is Sintofluid, not Sintopoid. I assume that's NOT the one we want for cross reference 235.63?
Closest Sintopoid I have found (to meet 75W-80 as per MB sheet 235.63) is the Titan Sintopoid 75W-85, similar but not the one.
As for Shell TF 0870 B, that meets 235.64
it says out of stock
Shell TF 0870 B 209 Liter
<strong>Shell TF 0870 B</strong><br /> Synthetisches Verteilergetriebeöl<br /> <br /> Shell TF-0870-B ist ein Hochleistungs-Getriebeöle für spezielle Verteilergetriebe von Magna Powertrain und Mercedes-Benz Hinterachsgetriebe nach MB 235.64www.kreissler24.de
..and then I stumbled on this one here made by Febi:
listed as Transfer Case Oil and if you scroll down there is a table that says Specification TF 0870 B.
Any thoughts on that one?
Also how many liters do we need of 235.63? I know we need 0.8L of 235.64 (0.4L per side) so that's a 1L bottle.
You have discovered the issue which led to my original error.
Magna / MB have specified what appears to be a Grade, 75W-80, normally used as a gearbox oil, for the rear axle gears.
I suggest you talk to Fuchs Greek Distributor and see if they actually make a specified Hypoid gear oil in 75W-80.
They may not.
I believe @veeeight found a specialist UK manufacturer who did offer a GL-5 75W-80 hypoid axle gear oil.
Perhaps he would be good enough to re post it.
I shall also talk to Fuchs Distributor in Australia and see what they have to say on the subject.
Re the clutch plate oil, I would suggest you speak to Shell's Greek lubricant distributor and simply have them order it in for you.
Likely to take while, so sooner you do so, the better.
Febi, is quality German lubricant company, part of the Bilstein Group.
However, I wouldn't take the chance, unless absolutely backed into a corner.
Interesting in that they describe this oil as for use in BOTH transmissions AND hypoid rear axle assemblies.
75w80 Synthetic Gear / Diff Oil GL-5
Fully Synthetic 75w80 Premium Gear / Differential Oil Fully synthetic gear oil is a high performance product manufactured from a blend of synthetic oils, sheer stable viscosity index improvers and a multipurpose extreme pressure additive system. It offers a high level of performance when...www.westwayoils.co.uk
I wonder on that basis, what Fuchs would say about their 75W-80.
Still trying to reach someone in Technical at Fuchs Australia.
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
