It's not ideal the situation we collectively find ourselves in around this lubricant situation. I'm guessing from @fatty45, response to my diff oil MB used, it is not necessarily exactly correct but it's not possible to tell for sure but it's generically possible it is correct.

I would be interested in @Turbo Ed experience on this in Australia. Or have I missed it in the size of the post

I can tell you one thing. I never, ever ran into a single problem in my VW, everything was in stock, down to the tiniest consumable, at every dealership or the aftermarket. I knew every little thing going into the engine and everywhere else and this paranoia that I'm going through right now, dealership ordering by my VIN and yet selling me the incorrect oil, was just never a thing. Or waiting for four fucking plugs like it's some kind of rare sh1t developed in some secret government facility 500 feet underground. Had tons of options.

The A45s is such a thrill, it really is incredible, but for my next car I think I'm going back home. Probably in the form of an Audi though.

 

It's not ideal the situation we collectively find ourselves in around this lubricant situation. I'm guessing from @fatty45, response to my diff oil MB used, it is not necessarily exactly correct but it's not possible to tell for sure but it's generically possible it is correct.

I would be interested in @Turbo Ed experience on this in Australia. Or have I missed it in the size of the post

@Forrester et al

The only reason I have not been involved in this discussion recently, is that I thought I made my views clear, posts ago.
To reiterate and add slightly.
1) Never believe OEM's so called "service recommendation intervals".
2) OEM Dealerships in this country at least, are staffed by individuals who could not / can't get a job in the quality independent service industry.
3) After first service, (whenever that is specified) my vehicles are always serviced at quality independents, depending upon the brand. (In this country, they tend to specialize)
5) I specify the change intervals, brand and grades of lubricants used.
6) I use a local lubricant supplier where I can, as they have almost 100 years' experience in one of the world's harshest lubricant environments.
7) I have used their GL-5 (as @veeeight has been stating repeatedly) in the hypoid ring gear section of the rear axle assembly of all my vehicles for many years.
8) The two side clutch packs in our rear axle assembly are relatively rare in this country.
If you added all the MB and VAG variants using this tech here, I doubt it would total 1000 vehicles.
Consequently, the local lubricant supplier, at least the last time I checked, had not released their version of 235.64.
Which, again as @veeeight has been repeatedly stating, is the correct MB spec. for the side clutch packs and as far as I can see, for worldwide usage.
So, my independent workshop purchases the side clutch pack lubricant, (usually without trouble I should say), from our local MB dealership, which by pure coincidence is also from where the vehicle was sold.

Now, like @veeeight, I am also out of here.

 

2) OEM Dealerships in this country at least, are staffed by individuals who could not / can't get a job in the quality independent service industry.
[/QUOTE]
😂

 

@Turbo Ed If I can't find the OEM 235.64, are there any aftermarket alternatives that you recommend? Don't mind the cost, what is the best 235.64 in your opinion?

 

No aftermarket version of 235.64 in this country, to the best of my knowledge, which is precisely why my independent keeps buying it from the local MB Dealership.

In all my vehicles, this would be the first time I have had to do this in at least 40 years.

 

Another damned Spark Plug scenario.

Frustrating, isn't it????

Just as well we both love the car!!!

 

It all makes perfect sense @fatty45 and joining this forum was the next best thing after purchasing my A45s (although I joined here a few months before picking it up). Who knows how in the world I would've been able to deal with all that mess that AMG has been putting us through. I certainly wouldn't have known a thing about our vehicle's tuning difficulties, so I would have probably jumped straight into tuning it to 500hp without knowing anything about WOT duration and ambient temperature limitations that @Turbo Ed has explained so nicely, and I wouldn't have known about our spark plugs and differential oil shortages, to at least place an order in advance. And I'm far from acquiring AI capabilities, but we're fortunate to have one here.

The thing is, it's out of my hands. I can't seem to be able to find the .64, OEM or aftermarket, and if dealer can't get it for me then either I'm not changing the oil at all (which ain't happening), or .15 it is. I don't think I have another choice here...

Oh, you guys care to know what MB responded? I asked which is the correct oil for my car, 235.15 or .64 and I wanted them to answer (expecting them to point the .64) so I would show my dealer the screenshot. And their response was that I need to contact my dealer. Who has sold me the .15.

And the paranoia goes on...

 

What I'm planning to do next is show my dealer a few pages that I've printed, as per @veeeight advice:

Mercedes-Benz Operating Fluids

Publication platform for approved operating fluids from Mercedes-Benz

operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com

Mercedes-Benz Operating Fluids

Publication platform for approved operating fluids from Mercedes-Benz

operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com

Oil, fluid type and capacity for MERCEDES-BENZ A-Class W177/V177 2018-

Recommended engine oil, transmission fluids, coolant type, filling capacities and service intervals for MERCEDES-BENZ A-Class W177/V177 2018-.

oils-finder.com

They may question the third source but certainly can't say a thing about MB's own pages.

Other than that, dunno what else I can do really. Set up my own lab and produce a .64?

 

Tongue in cheek but if you really wanted to you could import it from @Turbo Ed ’s garage 😬

 

Someone replied to a similar thread on another forum that A000-989-36-08-11 satisfies MB235.63 requirement. I asked for more details (source) but have not received a reply yet. Additionally, I searched (from US) for this part number and it shows "Transmission Oil" and costs $73 USD per liter! I have not been able to find any application info. Anyone know anything about this part number?

 

12 x 1 litre bottles

No further info.

 

Guys,

OK I think we are all in agreement that obtaining the correct lubricants for our rear axle assemblies through the MB Network is problematic, at best.

So, I have been spending recent days talking to Magna, (who, incidentally, claim our assemblies were designed and are built in a different Magna facility to the VAG products, however who really knows, outside Magna) and then to various large European lubricant suppliers, on the basis my local Australian specialist lubricant supplier is of no use to most of you.

So, firstly the rear axle differential oil; MB reference 235.63 This should be GL-5 rated SAE spec 75W-80 oil, in my opinion a full synthetic. (Some companies claim to meet the spec with a partial synthetic). Many large European companies offer this oil as a full synthetic; however, the company with the widest distribution, literally across the world and therefore of the most use to all members here, is the German company FUCHS. So best to start there.

Then, the unique, (as far as I can tell) to our vehicles, the side clutch pack oil; MB reference 235.64.
According to Magna, this IS different to the VAG spec.
Both the oils apparently are only made by SHELL.
I cannot swear to this, given the number of specialty lubricant manufacturers in the world.
However, if we are talking a true muti national lubricant distribution system, so everyone here can use the info, I think SHELL is it.

Shades of the Spark Plug fiasco.

The VAG product supposedly uses SHELL's TF 0870

Our vehicles use SHELL's TF 0870 B
The difference apparently all being in the B.
Now, I am not saying your local SHELL distributor will have it on the shelf; however, they SHOULD be able to order it in for any of you.

Like I say, really reminds me of the Spark Plug scenario.
For a "mas produced" vehicle, our cars are unique in so many areas it is really quite extraordinary.

No wonder the typical MB Dealership Workshop / Parts Dept are completely out of their depth.

 

Their product is called Titan Sintofluid 75W-80.

@Turbo Ed - I would have thought something from their Sintopoid Hypoid range would be more suitable?

 

Yup.

Correlates well to what I posted in previous threads/posts.

M-B 235.64 is Shell TF 0870 B


You can have 209 litres of the stuff here

Shell TF 0870 B 209 Liter

<strong>Shell TF 0870 B</strong><br /> Synthetisches Verteilergetriebeöl<br /> <br /> Shell TF-0870-B ist ein Hochleistungs-Getriebeöle für spezielle Verteilergetriebe von Magna Powertrain und Mercedes-Benz Hinterachsgetriebe nach MB 235.64

www.kreissler24.de

 

There is a Fuchs Titan Sintofluid 75W-80 which is GL-5 but is listed as manual transmission fluid. Note the name is Sintofluid, not Sintopoid. I assume that's NOT the one we want for cross reference 235.63?

https://www.alrawi-fuchs.com/products/node/106

Closest Sintopoid I have found (to meet 75W-80 as per MB sheet 235.63) is the Titan Sintopoid 75W-85, similar but not the one.

As for Shell TF 0870 B, that meets 235.64

Shell TF 0870 B 209 Liter

<strong>Shell TF 0870 B</strong><br /> Synthetisches Verteilergetriebeöl<br /> <br /> Shell TF-0870-B ist ein Hochleistungs-Getriebeöle für spezielle Verteilergetriebe von Magna Powertrain und Mercedes-Benz Hinterachsgetriebe nach MB 235.64

www.kreissler24.de

it says out of stock

..and then I stumbled on this one here made by Febi:

reCAPTCHA Verification

listed as Transfer Case Oil and if you scroll down there is a table that says Specification TF 0870 B.
Any thoughts on that one?

Also how many liters do we need of 235.63? I know we need 0.8L of 235.64 (0.4L per side) so that's a 1L bottle.

 

@Theo , I was actually going to post on this last night my time, after my initial quick response to @veeeight
You have discovered the issue which led to my original error.

Magna / MB have specified what appears to be a Grade, 75W-80, normally used as a gearbox oil, for the rear axle gears.
I suggest you talk to Fuchs Greek Distributor and see if they actually make a specified Hypoid gear oil in 75W-80.
They may not.
I believe @veeeight found a specialist UK manufacturer who did offer a GL-5 75W-80 hypoid axle gear oil.
Perhaps he would be good enough to re post it.

I shall also talk to Fuchs Distributor in Australia and see what they have to say on the subject.

Re the clutch plate oil, I would suggest you speak to Shell's Greek lubricant distributor and simply have them order it in for you.
Likely to take while, so sooner you do so, the better.

Febi, is quality German lubricant company, part of the Bilstein Group.
However, I wouldn't take the chance, unless absolutely backed into a corner.

 

All,

I finally got my ISPPI (the new EPC) account ironed out and I'm able to login. I can confirm the following MB part numbers for the TWIN rear axle:

for hypoid chamber (235.63): A0009893608
for clutch packs (235.64): A000989440611 CDNW
drain/fill plugs (they list 4 required but add two more if also replacing the hypoid chamber oil): A1779901100

now if we could just find the procedure...

 

And how much of 235.63 for hypoid chamber?
And is this correct, 0.4L of 235.64 per clutch = 0.8L in total = 1L bottle?

 

@Theo, the fill amounts are found in WIS and are as follows:
Right Clutch Housing Capacity: 0.35 liters
Left Clutch Housing Capacity: 0.37 liters
Center Gear Set Housing Capacity: 0.48 liters

So 1 liter of each oil type and you should be good to go for a full rear axle service.

 

@fatty45

I recall seeing a procedure in WIS for changing the oil in the 2 side clutch packs. No need to replace plugs etc. No mention of any diagnostic reset etc.

There is however no procedure for changing the centre gear section oil but anyone with any mechanical sense should be able to work that section out.

 

@fatty45

I recall seeing a procedure in WIS for changing the oil in the 2 side clutch packs. No need to replace plugs etc. No mention of any diagnostic reset etc.

There is however no procedure for changing the centre gear section oil but anyone with any mechanical sense should be able to work that section out.

@veeeight, I have access to two instances of WIS, mid-2021 and late-2022 and neither lists a procedure for changing the clutch oil, but both reference it being required on the maintenance schedules. I have checked both the c118 and w177 sections without luck. If you're able, could you post a screen-shot or excerpt covering the procedure?

 

OK, checked with my independent workshop, who, after me discussing it with the Owner, then proceeded to repeat it to his entire workshop staff, with much merriment, all round.
I think I was the light relief for the day.
As I suspected, the reason they have never mentioned anything about the job to me previously, is that it was simply not worth mentioning, at least in their eyes.
Just another simple maintenance task.

 

Having had a discussion around the A45s diff and oil, I can’t help but wonder why the A35 diff seems to be failing in some relatively low mileage cars 4matic Inoperative message

 

Having had a discussion around the A45s diff and oil, I can’t help but wonder why the A35 diff seems to be failing in some relatively low mileage cars 4matic Inoperative message

Let’s not go off topic. Keep the A35 diff discussion in the A35 section, as the A35 diff bears no resemblance to the A45 diff.

 

@fatty45 has given us tremendous insight into the various diffs. He only touched on the possible one for the A35. I would be grateful for more information as I am sure he rarely if ever looks at the A35 section.

 

What if we use the 235.15 for the center section, if we can't find the aftermarket 235.63? The difference is minimal, 75W-85 vs 75W-80 and while it would be smart to get it spot on for the clutch housings, perhaps a slightly thicker oil such as the 235.15 for the center gear set might work just as well. So 235.64 for the two clutches and 235.15 for gear set?

I'm asking because so far I haven't found the 235.63 (see post #208 first two paragraphs) and I have already purchased the 235.15. Have already ordered the 235.64 from dealership.

 

@veeeight - you are a legend, sir! As an avid DIY'er who does not take his vehicle to a shop unless absolutely necessary, I very much appreciate this. And as I suspected, the fill and drain plugs are not reusable, and the clutch oil is electronically monitored and requires a reset when the oil is changed. Thanks again!!!

 

Steady with the complements. Getting ones head through the door come to mind. 🤣 Did you have any thoughts on the A35 diff. You briefly touched on it at one point.

 

Almost DIY time!

 

"transfer case" or "haldex" or however the unit which transfers the power between the front and rear is called (or is this the what is meant above with the lubed for life "gear set"?)

W177 A45s works differently from the single Haldex/Borg Warner type electronic multi plate clutch in the sense that the single clutch pack connecting front and rear does not exist - instead 2 multi plate clutch packs are installed, one on each half shaft exiting the rear diff, to control each side locking or slipping independently. This is how you can engage one side more than the other giving drift mode.

So the centre section rear diff is conventional hypoid diff gears (“lubed for life”) and the 2 side clutch packs require oil changes with Shell TF 870 B.

 

Does this mean that the clutch packs on each rear wheel not only control the torque "left to rear" but also "front to back" 🤯 ?

 

@fatty45 just to let you know the A35 element of the thread was moved to (26) A35 AMG Rear differential issue? | Mercedes A-Class Forum (aclassclub.co.uk) If you would like to comment there.

 

@veeeight

So I assume our front open diff doesn't require maintenance?

Also, I don't think I can find one of the 235.63 oils you guys have been talking about. That's why I was wondering if I could use the .15 instead, which is like only 5 grade thicker, you could say practically identical, and only for the middle, less critical section. The way I see it, it's either that or sticking with MB's "lubed for life" for this part. What would you choose if these were your only two choices, with respect to your diff longevity in the long run?

 

Given the age and mileage of your car I would accept the lubed for life.

 

@Theo without checking, I’m pretty sure the front diff is part of the gearbox lube. So no separate maintenance.

Re centre section, personally I would go with a Hypoid GL-5 oil, with viscosity as close to the OE spec. I personally don’t like the idea of the .15 oil, in a set of Hypoid gears. Hypoid gears require Extreme Pressure oils.

 

Not sure if I read this table correct but it seems our front diff should take 235.74 or 235.0 oil?

And the DCT needs 236.22 ?

 

Just picked up the final parts for the whole service, the 235.64 oil and the gasket seal for the gearbox.

So guess what arrived today, 1 liter of Shell TF 0870 B. The one we've been talking about, except I got it from the dealership, so apparently that's the one MB provides as 235.64. Wasn't expecting that. Also got the rubber gasket seal for the gearbox, so I'm finally ready for the complete, as per MB schedule, diff and gearbox service, but still need to decide what to do with the 235.63, which, frankly, I might just skip for now, as I'm not sure I've found the right oils.

And I picked up 6 liters of AMG 0W-40 but I had to find another source as it has been discontinued by the local MB distributor. Dealership now only provides the Petronas 5W-40, which I wouldn't hesitate using, but prefer the AMG which I've been running since the first oil change. Got the oil filter too, just because they said they only had 5 pcs left.

 

@Theo,

The Shell TF0870B is what is supplied, in Shell packaging, by MB Australia, also, so I am guessing it is a worldwide scenario.
It simply shows the low volume nature of our vehicles, in that it is not worth MB / AMG's while to even bother with re packaging, as they would do for the more commonly used lubricants.